Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Eats Bugs on December 7, 2008 at 7:47pm

I'm no anthropologist, but I think even the good-hearted, land-loving pagans of yor would have taken in better communication, indoor plumbing, and improved agriculture. We improve our lives for the same reasons they did.

Permalink Reply by Renée on November 16, 2008 at 9:15pm

I used to be Pagan. I mean, Pagan Pagan. Like, new-age-section-at-Barnes-and-Nobles Pagan. Then I began listening to atheist podcasts, like Infidelguy, and discussions that took on a more humanistic appeal. It was then I realized my rationalizations were actually, I guess the word would be, secular by definition. I read The God Delusion, and Richard Dawkins said it perfectly in how I viewed the world, as a "secular pantheist". He then says breaks it down even more as it being nothing more than "sexed up atheism". It was then I said to myself, well I guess that means I'm an atheist when it comes down to it.

But there will always be a pagan footprint in my past. The whole 'one with nature' is something I feel deeply about. I just don't have any ethereal ties to it. Before I looked at nature with a sort of mystical view. Now I look at it from a scientific view (biology major), and yet I'm at greater awe now than I ever was before. A secular awe of the world, if you will.. I call it Diet awe .. awe without the sugary guilt. Ok I'm gonna stop now, lol... but that is what I think an atheist pagan is.

Permalink Reply by Leslee Love on December 19, 2008 at 9:34am

Pagan literally means "rustic", or "country-dweller"...and so a deep love and understanding of nature, and the nature of things: one who sits back and enjoys nature and does not succumb to the hustle-bustle of city life. Though I live in the city, I am a huge lover of nature, the seasons, and how nature mirrors our actions; how it affects us and vice versa! Nature is so alive, it is beautiful! Just watch it...how the trees communicate with each other, the seasons, animals defense mechanisms, evolution, and so on... Great lil group here!

Permalink Reply by Jo Jerome on May 29, 2009 at 1:17am

The Atheist part is the rational, logical, reasoned mind. The part of me that seeks to see the world as it really is.

The Pagan part creatively interprets that information, puts it into easier-to-follow metaphor and imagery. Our brains seem to have evolved to love finding patterns, rhythm, to put a 'will' on every little thing.

The Atheist part keeps balance there; knows that the language and images and ritual are not literal interpretations, but an artistic visual reference where little or no real reference exists (What does math 'look' like? What does the Unified Field 'look' like?).

I suppose it's a yin and yang. I wish to tap into the very real energy of the Unified field, of the 'fabric' of space-time. The Atheist side of me recognizes that while space-time is not a literal 'fabric,' our brains need a familiar point of reference, so allows the Pagan side of me to envision that.

Not sure if any of that made sense. It's late and I'm rambling!

Permalink Reply by Angie Jackson on June 5, 2009 at 2:28pm

I'm not really sure I count as pagan, honestly. I love nature, and feel ... awe I suppose when in it, and a certain excitement mixed with peace, like when whitewater rafting or swimming in the ocean during a thunderstorm. (No, it's not safe, but yes, it's amazing. Much like sex and hitchhiking. All risks are relative to their rewards.) But I don't believe in anything supernatural, don't buy into the "higher power" concept, think energy is a greatly misunderstood and overused term, etc. I'm very naturalistic these days. Even certain things that used to seem quasi-mystical to me, like a mother's love, can be explained hormonally. (Not that it makes it any less cool! If you place a newborn on mom's chest, the connection is so strong between them, her body will actually rise in temperature to bring the baby's body temp up.)

Permalink Reply by Heidi Guedel on October 18, 2009 at 2:07pm

Angie - Dr. Rupert Sheldrake conducted experiments in London with nursing mothers because his wife told him that she would get the milk-let-down response in her breasts even when she was away from their son, and it corresponded with her baby awakening and being hungry. This was confirmed by the nanny, who compared notes with the mother about the timing. So Rupert decided to study this phenomenon and found that it was quite common among nursing mothers, but seldom mentioned because of the "woo" taboo.

I consider myself a possible "pagan" because I believe that nature is intelligent, and that other forms of life are conscious and that our consciousness affects each other and the rest of nature.

See the discussion I started in the "Pantheism - naturalism" group that I recently joined. It's about fascinating experiments done by scientist Rene' Peoc'h with a robot that moved according to a Random Event Generator, and was demonstrably influenced by a group of baby chicks that had bonded to it as a substitute mother. Katrina commented on that discussion, and so I went to her page, and found this group through her. So here I am! 8-)

Permalink Reply by LeaT on June 14, 2009 at 6:34pm

Well, ultimately pagan means any other form of belief that is not Christian or a part of the montheistic religions. It's hard to shrug off the new age connotations though, and I would paganism generally does not involve any form of god-worshipping.

Permalink Reply by Chris Highland on June 26, 2009 at 5:07pm

I know many people who blend their spiritual viewpoints like a double-mocha-latte. It's intriguing but doesn't always lead to many rational conversations. I still work with "insiders" (faith-folk) yet having worked with "outsiders" my whole life (and been one too) I appreciate returning to the origin of the word "pagan": a country-dwelling person of the land. Classically, the outcast, castout, castaways (lepers, heretics, heathens, etc). For many this seems a good place since we are welcomed "with open arms" by the natural world (Nature) of which we are an inseparable part. Once upon a time I saw a guy in the sky, then Nature was my goddess in the grass. Now, some form or formless "natural spirituality" seems to work, without worshipping anything anthropomorphic, including Nature. All figured out? No way. We are the pathfinders. I offer my writings and photography if it is of interest: Nature Temple. I still find the two Johns (Muir and Burroughs) helpful in exploring some kind of naturalistic spiritual path.

Permalink Reply by Nate on June 26, 2009 at 5:32pm

For many this seems a good place since we are welcomed "with open arms" by the natural world (Nature) of which we are an inseparable part. Once upon a time I saw a guy in the sky, then Nature was my goddess in the grass. Now, some form or formless "natural spirituality" seems to work, without worshipping anything anthropomorphic, including Nature. All figured out? No way. We are the pathfinders.

You've expressed this definition of naturalistic spirituality with great clarity, Chris. Thank you.

Permalink Reply by Heidi Guedel on October 18, 2009 at 2:18pm

Chris: "I appreciate returning to the origin of the word "pagan": a country-dwelling person of the land. Classically, the outcast, castout, castaways (lepers, heretics, heathens, etc). For many this seems a good place since we are welcomed "with open arms" by the natural world (Nature) of which we are an inseparable part."

I resemble those remarks! 8-)

I live on 5 acres of ancient Live Oak Hammock in North Central Florida. These trees were here during the Civil War. Their trunks are 6-8 feet in diameter, and they are 75-85 feet high. I sneak around in camo clothing and aim a video camera at my four-footed, six legged, eight legged, and winged neighbors. I have wonderful footage of Barred Owls and Red Tailed Hawks and Woodpeckers and Cardinals (the kind with wings, lol) and squirrels and various newts, lizards, snakes, butterflies, wood spiders and buzzing things.

Our domestic animal family includes two horses, a big German Shepherd-Border Collie mix, and four indoor cats. I have had countless experiences with these creatures that indicate telepathic interconnection between/amongst us. This has lead me to the writings and lectures of Rupert Sheldrake.

Permalink Reply by Beverly Barnes Vokoun on December 29, 2013 at 4:23pm

During my marriage we lived on 5 aches on Southern Michigan...almost on the Ohio line. We too had all the various creatures you mentioned along with our own chicken, ducks, geese, MANY barn cats, 2 border collies, a horse, cow, pigs, rabbits, and many goats. Our 1/4 acre garden was my pride and joy...full of delicious  vegetables. We also had 14 apple trees, 2 each of pear, peach, and plum trees, raspberry patch and strawberry bed and a huge asparagus patch. The 5 acres were put to good use...lol. my  husband did put his foot down when I wanted to plow the front yard and plant wheat...lol

That was the happiest time of my life. Even through the fall with the canning, butchering, and storage for the winter.....lol

Permalink Reply by Jo Jerome on November 17, 2009 at 11:39pm

Ran into another person recently, this time a Pagan herself, shocked to hear me say "Atheist-Pagan," as the two terms in her mind have always been mutually exclusive.

But as I see it, there are an awful lot of Pagan 'beliefs' which are rooted in science and not dependent on a separate-consciousness-from-you-and-I sentient being(s) behind it all. How the gravitational pull of the moon affects us. How weather, climate, and the changing of the seasons affect us. Focus and meditation through creative visualization. The psychological benefit of rituals, scents, sounds. And most of all the interconnectedness of all matter on the quantum level.

When we get into that realm of possibilities that science has little explanation for ... say, ley lines, earth energy and vortexes ... A Theistic-Pagan tends to look at that and make up answers where no evidence for such answers exist. Answers that often do involve literal, separate-consciousness-from-you-and-I willfulness and beings. As an Atheist-Pagan, I look at something like that and find my fascination in the possible but yet unknown. "Is it purely psychological or is there something more physical to it? Can we sense micro earthquakes like animals can and we just aren't as aware of it? Is there some other climate or geological phenomenon in this area that we're picking up on or reacting to?"

For us as Atheists, seeking the scientific answer, wondering what scientific answers there surely are even though we've yet to invent the tool that will provide that answer, doesn't take away from the beauty and mysticism of the phenomena. In fact, that scientific quest only adds to it!

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