Since it was suggested to move this discussion here from the Bondage thread (that sounded so wrong XD) and I was asked to do it, I guess I can start it.

It started with me mentioning feeling mentally androgynyous, something I find people having issues to accept and respect and then someone (sorry, I can't remember your name right now!) started to mention that the are esoteric fragments in our culture and in many religions about androgyny, but is often mistaken for a physical one, ie, born with no true gender if I remember it correctly.

I am not entirely sure what else you wanted to bring up about the issue, but nevertheless, the subject is interesting. Since I have studied some modern research about gender I can say that people in general are moving to become less bondaged (that word again...) by the genderstereotypes. I have also however noticed a backlash of that system where some people feel they must find a way to ascertain the gender they identity themselves with (mostly the gender they are born with) with extreme stereotypes since such things are starting to become scarce at least in our western society.

So it happens young men must be man of the man and females must act like they either are sluts or born in a Victorian era.

As for androgyny in question, I guess it also once again can be noted that people feeling androgynyous or being born as androgyns often feel discriminated in the society because the norm says you can either be male or female, not anything or both.

Feel free to discuss further.

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I don't think this is quite what you meant, but here's my thoughts on gender roles and stereotypes. They're retarded.

If my boyfriend wants to wear a dress and be a "housewife" (well, he does want the second...), then I'm fine with it. If I have a female friend who wants to wear boxers and cut her short, more power to her. There's no reason we have to restrict personal choice when it doesn't harm anyone else.

We're supposed to be living in a free society, and yet the circumstance of birth still controls what you're allowed to do?
I left a reply on that on your blog too yesterday evening ;)

Ofc, we westerners LIKE to say we are free from gender stereotypes. Notice the emphasis on like. We also like to boast over our equalism. In fact, very few people are free unless you are 100% aware of what is a stereotype or not. Sadly, very few people are actually aware and a lot of people don't really mind to fit into the stereotype because it makes them feel comfortable since they have something to identify themselves with, ie they know who they are.

I have a few issues with this myself since I am on the opposite side of the fence, ie, I don't understand how you can feel comfortable adhering to certain rules how to act and be like only according to your gender.

However as long group 1 (the one who like to adhere to gender rules) will exist, so will probably sadly stereotypes, although liberals like to think otherwise.
Personally, I don't fit very well in gender roles or stereotypes, either. I can't understand girls who go to the mall, gossip all day, love their makeup and shoes and clothes, and want to be cheerleaders or supermodels. It makes me sick.
I have to say that the US has taken the genderstereotypes especially for females on a completely new level though. I mean, you have supermodel shows like a part of your average TV program where females are supposed to compete against each other to become the new supermodel?

But it is not only there either, take a program such as Idol too. Same thing. Everything about superstardom no matter how short. Myself i find it rather useless since it's only done for the fame. I don't understand how fun it is to be completely forgotten a year after either.

The issue with gender roles is that they are absolutely EVERYWHERE. Even the way you talk normally, the way you behave in a group of people... Did you know that females that have British as their mothertongue use tag questions more often than males? If you don't know what I mean with tag question it's something like "But Jane went to the hairdresser, yesterday, didn't she?" ie the tag is merely used a tool to create a conversation.

Tag questions are used either 1) to confirm that you are right or 2) to create a discussion. If I would say something like "Hanna's brother is called Peter, right?" I am seeking for confirmation but if I say "This newspaper is good, isn't it?" it's means to create conversation.

And that still is only one example of many... The way women for example behave when they are going to talk is also different from men. Men talk when they are doing things together, activity plays an important role whereas females are ok to just meet up to talk. They don't need a reason to more or less.

Men also prefer talking more over politics and technology than females which prefer relationships for example. I cannot say I fit into the role of how females talk either, nevertheless, I know the game so with some of my female friends I just have to play along or they consider me rather strange I guess.

For example, could never talk to someone without a reason. I could never just call a person for the sake of talking, with the exception of one person whom I stand very, very close with. I am a one-relationship-person I think who only develops strong relationships with very few selected people and with those I have very intense relationships instead which means we basically talk a little every day. What's funny is that the person is a guy, and he has never seemed to mind our relationship during the past 2 years we've known each other ;)
Amen to that!

I find it very hard to make friends because I refuse to just chatter, and a lot of guys are just not receptive to female friends. It's depressing.
I agree that it's very hard to be around other females and just talk unless they already have "freer" leanings because there is simply nothing to talk about. Or so I feel it.

Since people can't see how extremely alternative I am just by looking at me, they bunch me together into the normal female category so men speak to me as such so we never get into those things I am interested in... which in the end means the discussion gets stuck.

Ofc, most men also adhere to the normal stereotype of how men should be like too, and I can only more or less speak to men of the non-stereotype category... I really have narrow preferences of what kind of people I can hang out with, becomes rather frustrating when people keep nagging at you to get a bigger social life, which ofc, is another stereotype but more connected to how the average human should be like.
Yvette, I don't think you are taking male hormones into account. They drive men into doing certain things, into acting in a certain way with women. I'm past 75 so am no longer hormon driven. I feel an attraction to a good looking woman but can walk away with no problem.

Your example of a man as a "housewife" in a dress is not just a simple gender role. The dress has a couple of sexual functions. It is designed to make the wearer appear more desirable to a male and it sends a signal that the wearer wishes to appear to be sexually submissive to males. Although I probably could function as a housewife in a dress, I would not be comfortable in said situation. As an old, not gay male the functions of a dress would not only not operate but they wouldn't be wanted. In any case, wearing a dress with a frilly apron might put one in a housewifely mood but it isn't really necessary to the work!

As for gender stereotypes, years ago I spent a year in charge of quality control in a local bra factory! I spent long periods working with these complex garments and as a result was able to reel off a woman's bra size by just looking at her, and always be right. I used this as a humorist ice breaker at parties! I'd walk up to someone I didn't know with a line like, "Hi! I see you use a 34B." That would really get a conversation going. Or sometimes cut it off right at the start!
Even if men are mostly driven by hormones, my idea is rather, why aren't some then? Or why can some control it more? I am not sure about you but I personally don't like the thought being slave to my hormones which would control my every thought as soon as I saw someone of the opposite sex.

But also take in account that that dress' role only serves its purpose because we defined it so. That's a part of the sexual culture.




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