http://www.dancewithshadows.com/nuts/2008/09/01/mir-israr-ullah-zeh...



I just found this startling article.. What kills me is that no one else in parliament had the guts to stand up to this guy. It is, after all, "tradition" so its okay.

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"To a very large extent, we are all collectively responsible."

Truer words were never spoken.
What do you suggest would be done then? We cannot forcefully change their culture, it will result in a backlash where their culture will rather be further enforced with a we vs them mentality. It IS their culture, would you like to have someone stomp into yours and say you cannot do this or that? Some customs yes are stupid and unnecessary, the key then is to show why it is.

In these very tight and often fundamental societies, it is very hard to open it all up, because when you do, the society falls completely apart. Also, what about all the women that actually prefer this system because it gives them safety?
Are you replying to me or Candace ? I have no solution - I feel it is intractible. Islam is now at the stage that christianity was a 1000 years ago, so it will probably take a 1000 years to fix. I was just giving some background to the lunacy and how we, the civilised, have no right to claim innocence.
It is disturbing. But don't you find it disturbing as well that both Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin mentioned violence against Barak Obama? Hillary Clinton mentioned the possibility of his assasination and Sarah Palin's rally chanted "kill him".

There is an interesting line in Umberto Eco's The Name of the Rose - "Never let women get ahead". I wonder what it all means?
There seems to be some doubt about the accuracy of this story. See here for instance. Whether the Baluch's killed these women, whether they were killed by Pakistanis who then blamed it on the Baluch's (for political purposes and to gain Western sympathy for Pakistan's dominion of Baluch), or whether the whole thing is a beat up and never happened, I don't know. However, I've read two articles by Baluchis which say this is simply not a part of their culture and that, far from being oppressed, their women are revered and have even been military leaders. One writer noted that most Baluchis are not Muslim, but Marxists. I haven't got time at the moment to research it fully, but there seems to be more to this story than has been widely reported.
Mohamed was not tolerant of atheists. They were the infidels! He only respected others as "people of the book". This is much like the Protestant culture today respecting the Catholics as "people of the book".
I said The Islamic world was generally fairly reasonable before all that, not TOTALLY reasonable. Certainly nowhere near as insane as now.

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