Maybe using science to refute nonsense isn't always the best strategy. Science requires intellectual integrity and serious research and study. Scientific knowledge is hard won. But you can pull nonsense out of your ass all day long.


You can refute one creationist argument just to have ten more thrown at you. Creationists reserve the right to invoke magic & miracles, but expect biologists to live up to impossible standards of proof in defense of evolution.


I say that instead of refuting nonsense with science, we should fight nonsense with nonsense. I think we should invent a rival intelligent design theory that invokes polytheistic beliefs, like the Greek or Norse pantheon.


We could mirror the arguments used by creationists, but in a pagan guise that they would not be able to agree with. For example we could argue that the universe is too complex to have been the product of just one creator. They would be forced to attack their own arguments for creationism. And it gives us the same ability as they have to invoke magic and miracles with a sprinkling of science on top to make it sound, well, sciency. It would force them to see why their own arguments don't make sense.


I'd like to explore this idea because I sense some potential in it. Maybe some clever memes could come out of it. Does anyone have any thoughts on it? What would be a good name for it? "Polytheistic Design" would be an accurate name, but I'm looking for something witty.

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I agree with you that using science against nonsense do not seem to yield any results. your idea is good, but won't it make us creationists too? and theists are also being fed with rumours that atheism is a religion.
And intelligent design theory invoking polytheistic beliefs already exists,i.e hinduism which has about a billion adherants.

your idea is good, but won't it make us creationists too? and theists are also being fed with rumours that atheism is a religion.

It can be presented in a way that's obviously tongue-in-cheek. Think Flying Spaghetti Monster. You could create scientific articles that have a faux seriousness to them, like an Onion news article, arguing that the gods of Mount Olympus are responsible for the creation of the universe.


And intelligent design theory invoking polytheistic beliefs already exists,i.e hinduism which has about a billion adherants.


Intelligent Design is an attempt to dress up a creation myth in scientific language. I've never heard of Hindus trying to have their creation myth taught alongside evolution as a scientific theory the way Christians do.


It isn't just that these ancient religions are polytheistic, but that they are extinct. Nobody seriously believes in Zues or Poseiden any more. Trying to cast an extinct religion in the  language of science would sound as silly as the Flat Earth Society, and would raise the question of why creation science is any less silly.

If this approach is confined to school board debates on what to teach, we might have something.  I think demanding that all creation theories be taught in a special class called Teach the Controversy might work.

I would ask what scientific Theory is a Controversy of the Theory of Evolution? As yet I don't know of any scientific Theory put forth anywhere that conflicts or disproves the Theory of Evolution.

If you want to make a debate class about this then fine, but you can't put it under the title of science as it clearly isn't. On that road we might as well teach every current major religion also. If we are teaching a "Controversy" we should show all side of it, since its a religious dispute versus a scientifically tested Theory.

I actually get very depressed , when you try to have a logical chat you get magical answers and pie in the sky quotes , like children who believe in fairy's, I think you must not get into that debate but rather try to open the blinkers a bit, by saying maybe god did it through evolution and when man reached a certain stage god blew a soul into them . try first to expose them gently to think a little bit more logical .......

When you tell a theist that their GOD wouldn't exist without informational value, or just to even know itself would exist. They go on to tell you that information it fictitious. You can't reason with  intentional stupidity. It's like trying to argue with a theist that tells you that GOD has no parts, is made of nothing, has no dimensional value.  Hence the argument for a Nothing GOD! As if defecting to the other side of the argument would magically win the argument. Theists can't tell the difference between their idea of GOD and the what the object of the Idea would be. Hence, they think their idea of GOD is GOD. As in the Object of the idea. And you wonder why they are so brainwashed, and intentionally stupid when it comes to this particular subject.

It's impossible to deprogram most brainwashed people, and thus trying to get them to actually think is like trying to get a rock to think. :/


And there is an aspect of Creationism not being covered here. Creationists are taught to circumvent logic and reason for a reason. They are specifically taught that science is seen as a Conspiracy, and Logic and reason is equal to talking snake if it doesn't coincide with their religious ideological constructs. There is a reason why the videos "Why Do Creationists Get Laughed At" exist. Creationism's purpose and goal is to shape science into religious indoctrination, and a science of obedience to their supposed GOD.  That's why they program their kids to be inherently dumb.

Very good idea epochonaut, I've presented it myself before but had it shot down as 'unethical.' Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.
In my experience the best way to counter creationists is to use their own beliefs against them. They are almost always abysmally ignorant - even of their own religion. I have used my knowledge of the bible to refute many of the claims they make. I can prove that either the bible is complete nonsense, or their beliefs are complete nonsense. Either way they lose.
The other thing that works is to use their blind acceptance of things against them. My favorite question is to ask if they believe the Earth revolves around the sun or the Sun revolves around the Earth. They all know the right answer but have no idea why it's right. Ask them to prove how they know the Earth orbits the Sun.




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