Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Angie Jackson on April 27, 2009 at 7:07pm

I'll give each a whirl...
1) To me personally, removing "god we trust" will return us to America's original currency. Since gawd's not such a big fan of cash (easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter heaven) I don't see why he needs to be on my money. Although his acolytes on TV sure do seem to love $
2) Because I care about what is true, and because people attempt to create laws according to those beliefs that affect all of us. And theocracy never works well - look at Saudi Arabia
3) I assume this is in reference to evolution? Chance isn't what evolution is about. It's about what works best in the present environment throughout various eras of earth history (very sloppy description but I'm still recovering from creationism)
4) Humans did not evolve from monkeys, rather both share a common ancestor. There's no evidence that *either* has stopped evolving - evolution is a process taking millions of years, so the fact we don't see major changes in our generation doesn't mean the process has stopped for either species
5) This is Pascal's Wager. I like to refute this with "What if you're wrong and Muslims are right? Allah will punish you forever, so by your logic it would be safer to be Muslim in case they're right". Also check out Edward Current's YouTube video "I converted to all religions, just to be safe" - hysterical.
6) I believe in things which are true, which I can experience or verify. Love, beauty, poetry, wonder, awe, nature, science, knowledge, family, charity, hope, and contentment. And chardonnay.
7) Well, if he finds a woman, together they can! To be less glib, just because we can't do everything yet doesn't mean we won't be able to in the future. Science doesn't claim to be "Ta-da! We're done. We know it all and there's nothing new to conquer" It's a process and a beautiful one at that.

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Permalink Reply by dusk on April 27, 2009 at 9:01pm

1. it would mean that this country will no longer be hypocritical when it allows freedom of religion yet has god on it's currency as well as it's pledge. this was added in during the end of the McCarthy era, which this country is still not over sadly. perhaps removing it would help bring that era to an end? it's the lie that i hate. either we have the freedom of religion or we don't.

2. it had not eroded the foundation of belief to not have god in the pledge nor on it's currency before it was added in the late 1950's.

3 & 4. these are personal opinions and not scientific evidence. animals continue to evolve just as people do, people did not evolve from monkeys, and plenty happens by chance. it was by chance that our parents decided to have sex when our mothers were ovulating. it was by chance that one sperm out of millions of sperm cells fertilized that egg and we are all here today. (the average sperm count is about sixty million cells.)

5. according to the christian religion all the eastern religions are wrong. that's about one and a half billion people right now. all who believe that they are right and it is the christian who is misguided. according to christianity all the native americans who lived on the continents of north and south America as well as Australia not to mention all the islands in the pacific ocean were wrong and are all burning in hell for the sin of never even knowing christ nor the abrahamic god existed. a christian believes that every single ancient who worshipped the pagan gods is burning in hell for nothing more than ignorance. yet all of them believed in their prospective hells or heavens or afterlives and were they here today would insist on their right and your wrong. how could all these make believe places with zero proof of existence be right?

6. i think she needs to be more specific. i do not believe in anything supernatural per se though i do not dispute the power of the human mind and it's capabilities to create what the person needs, desires or believes to be true in order to spur the person into the behavior to achieve what they need or desire. (a good example is those who suffer from anorexia nervosa. if they feel a need to control their environment but cannot, then they see that they are fat no matter how many bones protrude from their skeletal bodies spurring them into more controlling behaviors until they see that they are thin - until the next time they feel a need to control then they see that they are fat repeat repeat repeat.)

7. the test tube embryos that women are injected with for in vitro pregnancies are already proof that man is and has been capable of creating human life. there are hundreds of thousands of such fertilized eggs frozen and waiting in a test tube right now all over the world.

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Permalink Reply by Anna on April 27, 2009 at 9:18pm

I'll give you a couple of my views. . 1) In God We Trust doesn't bother me- I view it as a tradition. 2) I accept peoples beliefs and do not try to erode them- (i just personally don't believe in flying pink polka-dotted elephants or whatever) 5) So just in case- you will worship something your whole life? ? ? Because there is a chance you might be wrong? In what other area of your life would you be willing to do this? Also, you can not prove your religion- but science can prove it to be absurd. 7) I have personally witnessed a man -well woman with the help of a man, create life. Have you personally witnessed Jeebus create life???

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Permalink Reply by Tara Benson on October 14, 2011 at 7:30pm

1.What difference will removing "In GOD We Trust" make to atheist?
It will be one less way my taxes are imposing someone else's religion on me.  Would you like "In Allah We Trust" on your money, paid for with your taxes?

2.If you don't believe why try to erode the foundation of those who do? (it is what has structured society to date)
Structured society how?  By oppressing women, LGBT people, religious minorities and non-religious people?  By impeding scientific progress?  By stifling imagination and inquiry?

3.When I look at the order of life the earth it could never have happened by chance.Nobody claims it happened "by chance" except Creationists trying to debunk abiogenesis and evolution.

 

4. Why have the Monkey stopped evolving and man has continued.
Who says they have?  

 

5. What if you are wrong? If you cannot prove to me then i prefer to stay with religion.
Pascal's wager.  What if you're wrong?  Why aren't you worshiping all of the thousands of gods man has created across history "just in case"?   You don't want to suffer the consequences because you worshiped the wrong god, do you?

 

6. If you don't believe in GOD what do you believe in?

What do you believe in besides God?  Certainly your whole life isn't God.  There are friends and family, community, the natural world, the potential of humanity...

 

7. Why cant man create life

Man created gods.  Eventually man will get around to creating life. 

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Permalink Reply by Renshia on October 14, 2011 at 9:15pm

1. Not a wit. It is the principle in the matter that counts. The American Constitution declare that church and state must be separate. The quote is simply a violation of that statute and the government should not be endorsing it.

2. (Personally speaking) I don't ever try to erode someones beliefs. I have in some cases even refused to talk about my beliefs for the very reason you speak of. I have even went so far as to supply materials to help someone perpetuate their beliefs.

I do however, believe, I Have a right to defend my beliefs. I also believe that religion is the most destructive construct created by man and has held back humanity from achieving it's potential for thousands of years. I believe this is worth fighting for and I believe, if we cannot stop this self destructive behavior, we will destroy ourselves over it.

I also believe that reality is better. We need to face reality as it is, not as we wish it to be. That is the only way we as humans can embrace life and find within it, the true value of life. It is also the only way we can contribute to that life, by dealing with what is real.

3. By looking at it that way you are robbing yourself of the true majesty of the world. Aside from the mechanics of how we developed into an oxygen rich environment that supports life and on into the development of thinking humans, all of which there is scientific evidence to support. By handing all this beauty, complexity, and diversity over to a supreme being and a quick spoken word, you rob yourself of seeing all the truly wondrous gifts this world so abundantly supplies. Sure it's incredible and hard to believe, but that's the true beauty of it. How, somewhere in this humongous cold  universe, all the variables needed accumulated themselves on this small planet and put into motion the conditions that could and would support life. This is not just some hockey shot in the dark thing. This is a wondrous thing that we get take part in. One that we can begin to understand by our ability to learn and understand. Our understanding doesn't negate the wonder of it, it magnifies it.

4. Evolution never stops. We did not jump from mouse, to monkey, to human. Monkeys are on their own evolutionary branch just like humans. We share a common ancestor and have both evolved in our own unique ways, we are not hybrids of monkeys, we are separate distinct species, with a common ancestor.

5. Fine then stay there. I prefer to live my life on what the world around me presents me with. When you deal within the limits of reality, the world functions better. I prefer not to waste my life on wishes and maybes. Instead of asking me, what if I am wrong, why don't you show me you are right? provide me with some evidence that can be verified and I will gladly step into line, until you can do that does it not seem ridiculous to live your life by it?

6. You, me, I believe in my family, my neighbor, my community, my country, I believe in humanity, In our ability to do good, to help each other survive. I believe this is the one and only life I get, and if I have to be alive until I am dead, I am damn well going to enjoy it. That's what I believe in.

7. But we do create life. Every time someone gets pregnant they have created life. Why can't we do it in a test tube? It's complicated, one day we will learn how. We are close. Regardless of that fact, We may not yet be able to create it in a tube, but we understand how it happens and we have scientific evidence of this information. Is it really enough to just give up learning about all the mysteries that this wonderful world provides for us, and say god did it. Sorry it is not enough for me.

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