Arguing politics with right wingers is like arguing with creationists

Everything they say is based on beliefs, not evidence.  They seem to have no interest in an honest discussion of the facts.  Instead they hang on to their naive ideologies like "Freedom" and "govt is incapable and corrupt".  I hate taxes as much as the next guy, but sometimes the best solution is a public solution.


For right wingers, the only solution is a capitalistic solution - everything else is "socialist".


Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions on tactics that might get these people to open thier minds just a little bit?

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Jason, I believe that 'fucking' foxtrot is a bit redundant. ;)
Uh oh. Does this mean if I have one I'll need two?

Also, I'm spoiled and irresponsible yet I have 6 siblings. Well adjusted, atheist/agnostic siblings at that. Is it because I'm the youngest and was the cutest?

Poor mum. She wanted a little girl. She had four boys. Then one girl, who wanted to be a boy. Then another boy. Then me. :D Clearly she had no more kids because she got it right.
I had a roommate in college named Lenny, he was the youngest sibling, the 15th one hatched and the only male - boy was he fucked up.
My brother is the youngest of 3 and the only boy. We are very typical with an eldest over achiever, a middle who is too awesome for words and a youngest who has only started growing up in the last 5 years (Moving at least one state away has been a great help for him). There is hope if the kids move away from the parents at a reasonable age. College does not count in the same way unless the child is paying his or her own way.
Here's one argument you can try with a conservative:
Start off by making sure they understand Red States and Blue States.
Then point out how almost all the top 15 states in income, education, health care, and social services are all Blue States, Then point out how the bottom 15 states are all Red States.

Then ask if Conservative Republicanism is so great, why are the bottom 15 states all Red?

So if you then look at how religious states are, you see there's no coincidence.
Dave, this is a terrific accidental sociological experiment with an abundantly clear empirical result. Add in the results from other countries scored by social development vs religiosity/secularism, and the result is even more stark. The more conservative and religious a region is, the poorer and more distressed it is on every benchmark. Conservatism is simply bad for people. Conservatives vote against their own best interests, because they are too shortsighted or uneducated to see that we are all in this together.

This is, of course, the perfect population to serve as dupes for free-market fundamentalists. With ignorant poor people divided against themselves, they are at the mercy of capitalist feudal masters. Since conservatism is suspicious of, if not outright hostile to, education in general, the chances of conservatives working their way out of this hole are not great. Pervasive modern communications technology allows enlightenment to seep into backward areas, but it also allows endarkenment to seep out.
Outstanding! Thanks Dave, I'll do just that
Yeah, they've become sheep, foxzombies, glen beck freak out rock star zombies...
they really like people that talk with hard "rrrr's" in their speech, limpblah, very predictable and riding the 'corrupted' capitalism media hype bandwaggon all the way on hi-def, make-up and all.

basically, it's like teenagers in the 80's w/their Sebastian Bach, Vince Neil or love of whatever hair band...
get me?
hooray for 'foxzombies' - the word, not the situation.
Unfortunately, I do not believe they will open their minds. And, the reason is, they are not using their minds. Logical thinking, thoughtful reflection, and rational thought have absolutely nothing to do with their arguments. Their position is based almost entirely on emotion. I'm not suggesting that all right wingers are stupid. They are not. They run businesses, banks, are in law, medicine, and many are quite successful. However, why would a person who has, say, an advanced degree in accounting, get red in the face and become visibly shaken, upset, and sputtering when he finds out the person he is talking to is an atheist? (Happened to me recently). It's not his rational mind causing this reaction, it's his base emotions taking over. Rationality and logic do not work when confronted with raw emotion.

And that, in my humble opinion, is why people like Beck, Hannity, Palin, Faux News, et al. are so successful. They appeal to that part of the human psyche that triggers road rage along with the warm fuzzy feeling people have at finding a puppy under a Christmas tree. And, let's not forget group identification. I see no difference in someone defining themselves as a "good Christian" as opposed to a "good conservative." Either phrase, or preferably both, place him within the security of a group where outsiders are looked upon with disdain, often hatred, while those in the group enforce his feelings of superiority by being a member.

Interesting article by the Italian linguist and author, Umberto Eco.
See how many parts of his definition of fascism fit the current talking points and beliefs of the Republican party and the Tea Baggers.

A quote which is attributable to the Nobel Prize winning author, Sinclair Lewis, says, "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross.

And, from the little girl in the movie Poltergeist "They're heeeeeeeeeeeeere."
Thanks Pat, I agree with your comments entirely. I appreciate you responding.

As for me, I'll continue in my efforts to introduce the concepts of "uncertainty" and "critical thinking" into my political discourses.
It is like arguing with religious dullards, for very similar reasons. Their folksy "wisdom" is all they have, strip them of their folksy beliefs, the beliefs that tell them they are something special even though all empirical evidence points to the opposite, and they have nothing.

I just mock and ridicule them for their ignorance, as in the end, just like fundies they just don't matter.

Intelligent, a/k/a big business, republicans exist, but their fears are more logical. They fear we are heading for state sponsored capitalism, which is what the developing nations are practising. It works better too! The developing nations have sovereign wealth funds, while the free-market economies of the developed world have a bunch a's really hard to argue against what works, but they point out that the goverment is picking the winners and losers.

Meaning if you are some maverick out there who is looking to change the world, and the powers that be don't agree with you, you are going to be relegated to stocking shelves at wally-land for the rest of your natural life.

given our recent experience with mavericks,I'm of the opinon that may not be a bad thing.




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