Arguing politics with right wingers is like arguing with creationists

Everything they say is based on beliefs, not evidence.  They seem to have no interest in an honest discussion of the facts.  Instead they hang on to their naive ideologies like "Freedom" and "govt is incapable and corrupt".  I hate taxes as much as the next guy, but sometimes the best solution is a public solution.


For right wingers, the only solution is a capitalistic solution - everything else is "socialist".


Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions on tactics that might get these people to open thier minds just a little bit?

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Nice. But then, that's what it's really all about for Republibaggertarians: their stuff.

Seems to be the answer to all conservative rhetoric.Our 'coalition' with Cameron the bully and Clegg the yes man, has worked out fine for them. We have three parties in Britain none of which are any different from each other. In Scotland we have four to choose from, but none of them can speak for the people because they all have the same masters, big business. Until we sever this link our votes are useless.
Ralph Nader was fond of saying that there is no difference between the Democrats and Republicans. But I'm quite certain that a Democratic president would not have invaded Iraq to avenge the 9/11 attacks. There is a difference between the parties (in the US, at least). Not enough of one, but being beholden to corporate interests does not determine all political policy decisions.
Meddlesome, that is quite correct. Both the Democrats and the Republicans are slavishly devoted to their corporate masters. But the Republicans also have church masters which the Democrats generally don't. There are serious policy differences between the two parties, though of course both are heartily pro-business.
And let us not forget the Capitolist Tea Bagger Gang and Lonely Hearts Thug Band.
For those who haven't been paying attention, the current duel in Utah is being argued (as exampled in all the SL Tribune article comment forums) between the Rabid Right "Run their asses back to Mexico"/ stop illegal immigration hawks, and the Liberal Left's attempts to stop the Right from trying to beat back the Right to Privacy and the Civil Rights Act, in the name of some ends justifying the means / Glenn Beckian / Tea Bagger hysteria.

So now sides are being clearly lined up over the 'list' of some 1,300 supposedly illegal aliens (turns out they're not collectively members of any group so much as 'those having Hispanic last names'), and those who feel the culprits behind stealing the information, and circulating it in the first place, deserve prosecution.

Let the fireworks, no The fireworks have already begun . . . this is your chance to weigh in on the issue.

P.S. - Not trying to hijack this thread - just trying to breath 2nd life into it :)
I really have a hard time understanding the rabid nature of the illegal immigration debate in this country. I was baffled when the Hispanic immigrant community took to the streets in protest of, er, what exactly, I don't know. Demanding the right to illegally immigrate? Good luck with that. If they were demanding civil rights, well, they didn't really say so, and anyhow, they already have those, whether they are citizens or not.

The other side is just as bizarre. They claim they don't like nazis, yet they seem to be OK with living in a country where cops can stop you and demand to see your papers, simply if you look like you don't belong. Kinda hard to do fairly in a nation of immigrants, unless you stop everybody. Just what we need, a TSA line on every street corner.

I'm actually fairly happy with the Obama administration's posture and actions on illegal immigration. They've deported tons of illegals, and they've stepped up enforcement of businesses by simply sending auditors around to look for fraudulent records. I think this is the right approach. Why round up illegals when you can dry up their reason for coming here?

Now if we could just get a constitutional amendment to get rid of the silly rule that anybody born on American soil automatically gets citizenship. That made sense when the country was a huge, empty wilderness, but it doesn't make sense now. Why stick with an outdated rule?

Plus, it's fairly clear that we need a guest worker program to bring people in to do jobs that Americans don't want to do. But it's retarded to bring in illegals who work on the black market and avoid taxes, or pay taxes under somebody else's Social Security number so they never see those benefits of their labor. And maybe, just maybe, if the employer crackdown is thorough enough, farms and other employers of unskilled labor will stop being cheated by those who do hire illegals, and those industries will be forced to raise wages, thus attracting more citizen workers. Bummer if that causes inflation, but it's disgusting that inflation has been kept artificially low on the backs of illegal immigrants and the working poor generally.

I'm really sick of Republicans bashing illegals out of one side of their mouths while hiring them out of the other. That is, unfortunately, the kind of breathtaking hypocrisy that the right is famous for. But there's no reason at all that illegals can't be treated humanely, respecting their civil rights, including due process.
I always understood that America was peopled by immigrants in the first place.Not one person writing about this situation is truly American only the Native American Indians can claim to be American. I agree with Jason though that they are being used as slave labour in order to keep the wages low. We have a similar problem here in Britain, with mainly Asian people. Asylum seekers are lumped into the numbers of immigrants and treated very unfairly, the people of Glasgow marched to protest about the way the people were being categorised, and stopped the local hate groups in their tracks. A family of three from Russia committed suicide rather than face going back to their homeland, after being rejected by America and Britain. They all live in high rise flats which should be condemned, fearing the knock on the door from authorities and do not have anything like a normal existence, it is a sad indictment on all our governments that those needing help in our societies are not getting it, running away to find a better way of life, refused by the people of that country. I do not like the word immigrant it conjours up all sorts of opposition, bigotry and hatred.
Well, even the Native Americans immigrated from Siberia 10,000 years ago. We're all Africans, when you get down to it. Still, it seems reasonable to me that countries ought to be able to decide who they let in, and under what procedures. Nobody would put up with a family of strangers moving into their basement unannounced. I don't see immigration as being much different in principle. We should be sympathetic to those in need and treat them humanely, but I think everybody has a responsibility to try to improve the conditions where they come from. Sometimes that's just not possible, and in those cases, humanitarian accommodations must be made, but I don't think most of the people sneaking into the US qualify as refugees. They're just looking for a better deal.
Well you are the land of the free.............
Every country has the same beginnings, immigrants, greed pure and simple. America is neither unique nor special. The English came to my country too and haven't left. Our language is dying, our customs,industries and we are left with a parcel of rogues, eager to please their English masters yet again.


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