Why is it assumed that just because someone is an atheist, that they have to be a liberal? In essence, There are 2 sets of issues in politics. Fiscal and Social. That is at the extreme basic level..Money and Morals, if you can call them that. What happens if you have a 50/50 view with each of the major parties? What if you believe in low taxes and limited government? Well, then you are a Republican, right? What if you are an Atheist, but believe in low taxes and limited government? That does not make you a liberal.
I think that Atheists and homosexuals always think they have to align themselves with Democrats, because they are the opposite of "right-wing religious wackos"..To me that is not the case. I see most Liberal Democrats as a welfare mongering, hate spewing, illogical people. The party is generally filled with people with blinders on that think they have to oppose anything with an "R" in front of it. They think that all repulicans are going to overturn Roe v. Wade and impose religious rule on the country. I am sure there are those types in the Republican party, maybe more than we think..but, all in all, I doubt they could ever get anything like that through congress. So, you basically have to think about what issues are important to you, and what issues are likely to be pushed on the agenda. There is no perfect party for me..I have generally considered myself a Libertarian, but they have a few "planks" that are based in religion also..only difference is, they believe in personal liberty FIRST.
I guess most people choose which things are more important to them and align with those. Being without religion does not make me necessarily ANTI-religion. I could care less what people want to believe as long as they don't infringe on my rights doing it.
That being said, I choose to focus on Fiscal issues, and not social ones when I vote. Religion should stay out of politics. I am FISCALLY conservative, and SOCIALLY tollerant.!! I have gay friends, I have religious friends, I have preacher friends, I have minority friends. Strangely, I don't think I have atheist friends..at least none that claim to be...and none that really know I am. Only my family. I guess I am a closet atheist, but that is my business. It is no ones business what my beliefs are. I believe that being without religion is not a stance that I have to make a major part of my existence..I don't have to make sure others think like me..or make sure that I am an activist for the cause. To me, it is not a "cause", it is just who I am.
But, I most certainly am NOT a liberal. I believe that the current administration has done more to harm this country in 3 years than the previous bunch did in 8 years. I am also NOT a Bush fan, didn;t vote for him either time..he was a borderline Socialist himself. Thanks for listening and please don't consider this an attack on anyone that is a liberal. It is your decision alone, I just implore people to think and not just accept the "default" position..just because someone is a christian does not mean they are stupid in all aspects of thought.
Correct. Too many atheists conflate atheism with liberalism, which is illogical because beliefs and desires are separate things. Atheists can be liberal or conservative.
Get yourself one of these t-shirts:
Richard Dawkins helped launch a Conservative Humanist group a few years ago. But, from memory, he didn't talk much about conservative issues in his speech:
Conservative and liberal as words …with meanings, have different meanings outside the U.S.
Here in the U.S., liberal and conservative often just serve as the adult version of "cooties".
If, as you say, you fall into the far right end of the lower right quadrant in the Political Compass test, your fiscal politics are indeed "liberal" (no cooties implied).
Former Poli Sci grad here. The harder I've tried to pin down definitions of liberal and conservative, the less able I am to actually do it. I find the terms are only useful when loosely applied, or as a round about way of asking "do you typically vote Democrat or Republican?"
As for why Atheists are typically clumped with liberals -- well probably because of how entangled conservatives have been with Christians. Atheists have been clumped with liberals largely as a side effect of Christians taking over the conservatives.
I agree with your statement here.
"Being without religion does not make me necessarily ANTI-religion. I could care less what people want to believe as long as they don't infringe on my rights doing it."
"I don't have to make sure others think like me..or make sure that I am an activist for the cause. To me, it is not a "cause", it is just who I am." .. this too! I agree. I am live and let live in my thinking. People can believe whatever suits them.
I am not a liberal in all my ways of thinking as well. I am more complicated than that.
Thanks for your discussion I enjoyed reading it.
I do not have atheist friends either, but i am rather liberal and of course, an atheist. Although i disagree with many of the statements that you have mentioned, it would be nice if a fiscal conservative atheist were in office. Although i have voted sometimes for republicans, Coffman and Allard come to mind (Allard was completely on the dole of citi and fiercely defended their exorbitant banking practices, Coffman was relatively ok with me, the other republicans either did not win or did not register remembering).
Unfortunately ever since Reagan, the G.O.P. has been wedded to the evangelicals. Jerry Fallwell was regarded as a kook until Reagan brought him into the White House and into the mainstream.
The sad state of the democratic party do get the majority of my votes.
In conclusion, I believe that the average conservative is probably better at typing than I am and perhaps better at budgeting. So... go ahead and make a run for it as a republican free thinker who thinks freedom. Sincerely, Good luck.
I'd just like you to point me to some examples of liberals who are "welfare mongering, hate spewing, illogical people." I can see intolerance, sure, but who wouldn't become intolerant of the crap coming from the modern GOP? But hate? Lack of logic? Give me a break. And as far as the welfare, I'd far rather see my tax dollars go to ensuring that children and the disadvantaged had some sort of support structure than used to continue any war another day.
If you want illogic, my friend, read your own message. More holes than a swiss cheese.
An example.? Well, you have to look no further than your president..a man that wants to take earned money from some and give to the teet-sucklers of society. He truly believes that the "rich" don't pay their "fair share"..well, that is absolutely false..they pay over 50% of the total tax burden. Most americans..I think the number is about 46% pay NO FEDERAL INCOME TAX.. Is that okay? I think not. On top of that, some of them get money BACK>!!!! They are taking money that someone else paid in.
Hate spewing? Also, look to Obama. Every chance he gets, he says something about Republicans and "rich" people. He tries to joke about them and make sure all the following sheep take his ideas as actual facts...based on no facts at all. It is all political to him. This man is a thug pure an simple.
Illogical..again President Obama. He is now going around talking about how Republicans want to raise student loan rates..only thing is, it is not a RAISE, it is the expiration of a 50% cut that was voted on 5 years ago in Congress. A bill that he was absent on....TWICE.!! Didn't even vote "present"..but, he is sure to manipulate the facts to suit his reelection bid. Logical? I think not..self serving is the word you are looking for.
Disadvantaged kids? Yes, we should help them, and I am sure most of us would..But, we should not be government mandated to. The efficiency of government is nowhere near as good as private sector. There is more waste and fraud in government programs than anywhere else. We don't need to give unlimited amounts of money to people, we need to "teach them to fish"..there enlies the issue with government mandated charity. They cannot get people on their feet, they just make it easier to stay on their a$$. But, that again is what they want..it helps them politically to keep their "voters" happy and in the dark.
You're my hero of the day, lol. I agree 100%
You have to look at other countries for the liberals or the "welfare mongering, hate spewing, illogical people". For me (speaking as a Canadian) Obama is more of a conservative.
The list of the five happiest countries in the world are:
They all have universal health care and their children do not have the same exorbitant fees to get a higher education as you find in the U.S.
I think the "bad" image of the liberal owes more to special interest marketing in the U.S than the reality. Just like the "bad" image of the atheist is dictated by the marketing of radical christian groups.
They all have "universal" health care, but still have a survival rate from major diseases and surgery less than that of an american. Our health care in the USA is second to none.."free" of not. Nothing is free it is all in the massive tax rate they pay.
Also, I am not sure what "conservative" means in canada, but in america it represents a class of voter that is interested in smaller government, lower taxes, less government interference..Not Obama at all. The bad part of "conservative" here, is that they are generally also part of the "christian" coalition and want to tell people how to run their lives with bible morals. That is the part I do not identify with. There is no perfect party for a fiscally responsible atheist in america..sadly.
There is a lot of misinformation out there put out by the US lobby groups. I heard a debate last year at a prestigious forum between a us senator and one of our health care doctors. A lot of facts and figures were thrown out and there was no knockout punch delivered by the senator. I had to laugh when the pharmaceutical industry was saying Canadian drugs were unsafe. Just listened to a book about the duplicity of this industry by a former Editor of New England Journal of Medicine. There is no free enterprise there. Just money corrupting the research process and maximizing profit.