Atheists are a small minority in the U.S.  Advocates of gun control might be a minority in America as well. In light of the recent shootings in Aurora I am curious as to how atheists in this network view the lack of gun restrictions.  There are probably divergent views.

I have trouble believing that both presidential candidates are steering away from any call for reform after the horrific mass shooting. In my opinion it is insane to allow citizens access to assault weapons that can kill scores of people in a few minutes.  It was even more shocking to hear on a news show that a family had to raise money to pay for the immense hospital bills for one of the victims while they were already crippled with medical bills from the mothers fight with breast cancer.

As a Canadian I came to stand with my U.S brothers for the reason rally and freedom from religion.  I would be willing to come down to the capitol and march for two other important causes.  Gun control and universal health care.

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Thoughtful answer Pat.  You mentioned "Manifest Destiny" and that reminds me in 2012 of the U.S. invasion of Canada in 1812 that was a major uniting force for all Canadians.  Before that we were all not on the same page. 

I am a little envious of how the U.S. can glorify their past.  We were badly outnumbered and withstood the attempt to conquer us.  Yet, we really don't celebrate a defining moment in our history (except a bit on the 200th anniversary).   I had to laugh when I saw a piece in Yahoo news by an American historian that said the U.S. won the war of 1812 and downplayed the events in Canada and the burning down of the White House. He got a lot of facts wrong - but there is that spirit of a positive spin from a country that immortalized the Alamo.

The end result of that conflict is north of the 49th parallel health care does not turn anyone down for medical help with a prior illness or lack of money and you can't easily purchase an automatic weapon capable of killing scores of people in a few minutes.

I am glad that "Manifest Destiny" is no longer part of the U.S mindset.  We wouldn't stand much of a chance with a 2012 invasion. 

You're absolutely correct about glorifying our past; even if that glorification doesn't comport with reality. And, the War of 1812 is a prime example. The US really didn't "win" that war. And, the Battle of New Orleans was actually fought after the peace treaty was signed, and had no effect on the outcome - other than make Andrew Jackson president. At best, the outcome was a draw. The Canadians beat back the US invasion, which most Americans don't know about. And, it's the rare American that knows the burning of the White House was a payback for what the US did in York, Ontario.


I thought of this discussion where you talked about changing and glorifying the past when getting a little uptight about a history rewrite by Hollywood's "Argo" film of Canadian Ken Taylor's role in rescuing the American hostages in Iran.

A film critic puts it nicely in his "Argo Canuck Yourself" piece - another play on swearing like booklovers inspired "nucking futs"

After reading that, my first thought was, "You've got to be shitting me!" I distinctly recall, after Ambassador Taylor's rescue of the Americans, billboards going up around the US. They proudly displayed the Canadian flag, with the words "Thank You Canada" emblazoned on them. 

Then again, one of the uses of history is to inculcate a population with nationalistic myths. Just like Sylvester Stallone and Chuck Norris winning the Viet Nam War on film.


Nice to see Affleck show some class.  He got some of the facts wrong in the movie but met the issue head on. He changed the postscript line wording at the end of the movie and allowed Ken Taylor to refute the pure fiction parts of the film in the commentary portion of the DVD. Not everyone who watches the movie are the types to have any interest in a commentary released later - but at least the ones that do - will have a better appreciation of what really happened.

Reading that was a pleasant rarity.

One of the uses of movie making is to sell tickets.  Profit and truth keep but little company nowadays.

Russell, manifest destiny is not part of the U.S. mindset?

Churchill long ago boasted that the sun does not set on the British empire.

We in the U.S. can boast that the sun does not set on the American military.

And dammit, many of us do.

america has a lot of mental illness and is a violent society.This is reflected in the murder rate and in the violent foreign policy that the U.S. government pursues.

The Second Amendment was enacted so that citizens could protect themselves from the government. Citizens at that time had access to the same weaponry as the armed forces. The Second Amendment was not about insuring that Americans had guns for hunting or sport. Philosophically, as a nonconformist and minority, I like this. When I see the Arab Spring, it makes me appreciate the Second Amendment and its intent.

Pragmatically, however, I have very little faith that our species will ever overcome the natural tendency towards egocentrism, and resulting short sighted, emotion based, decision making. It does seem absurd for a society to regulate marijuana, sudafed (see Jon Stewart 7/23/12), food labels, safety devices of all sorts, driving, professional practices of all sorts, and NOT strictly regulate such obviously harmful instruments as ballistic weapons.

In the big picture, the majority of adult humans make the same types of immature life decisions as children. The only difference is the complexity of their rationalizations. Religious practices are an excellent example of this. Wars are another good example. For a war to occur, the leaders must somehow convince huge numbers of people to (often unnecessarily) risk death, while the leaders themselves remain safe. Truly rational animals might be able to handle real freedom... but we ain't that.

Edward, I agree that if you can regulate all the stuff you mentioned - why can't ballistic weapons be regulated.  If you go by country the stricter the gun control laws, the better the outcome for firearm related death rate. According to some stats the U.S. stands at 10.27 per 100,000.  Canada is 4.78, England is .46 and Japan is .07 deaths per 100,000.  

That rate I put in for Canada was for 1998 from Wikipedia.  I just found an article that talks about any type of murder and it states for all of Canada in 2010:

"The homicide rate fell to 1.62 for every 100,000 population, its lowest level since 1966, the agency says."

A few of you have talked about emotional decisions.  The Conservatives pushed the get tough on crime and incarcerate people for longer button and got elected in 2011 when our crime rate was on route to the lowest level since 1966. A typical tactic that unfortunately works even when the stats prove it wrong. 


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