I say "Like all religious ideas, information theory makes no testable claims.  It is therefore a complete fiction!"

It makes me shiver to see Atheist profess intentional, or perhaps in this case actual stupidity. And then defend it religiously. The sheer stupidity that it takes to makes such arguments is probably of the IQ charts entirely. So I am dedicating this thread to why some Atheists make the rest of us look more idiotic than theists that believe in a magic man made of nothing. It's pretty scary to see the lack of education in some people that don't even bother to educate themselves, or even listen to what they are saying in order to understand the stupidity of what it is that they are saying. :/ It's almost as if there is a fundamentalism growing in Atheism where Atheists start acting like theists, or start denying every aspect of reality as if Atheism meant to believe in the denial of reality. For six pages this person professed the denial of information whilst he happily sat there and used it. Even after I had asked him to try and post without it. O.o 


It's actually sad that such people are in the gene pool, and I really hope they don't decide to breed. I generally don't see this kind of theistic behavior in Atheists, so I guess that is a good sign.

So what do you think of Atheists that behave like irrational theist fundamentalists?



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Information is a concept John D. The definition of it depends on the context in which you use it.. Technically all information is made of energy. Thus you break up information into different types.. Like data, physical, written, mathematical, philosophical, genetic, ect... It's all information. Your definition of information is the common associated definition, and that is because most people have never really explored information theory in order to know what it means in different fields. Retained information just means that information is never destroyed even if it changes in purpose, function, meaning ect.. And that is because all information is made of the same stuff everything else is.

E=MC2 means matter can convert to energy, and energy can convert to matter. So if you understand the 4 stages of matter you can understand how information is regarded into something like physics, biology, physiology, and literally anything and everything.

These are not my definitions of information. It's that of the scientific community, philosophers, information theorists, biologists, engineers, and even by the justice system that governs our laws. Information theory is entirely a solid and well established field in all fields of study.. And it's something they need to start teaching kids in high school instead of just teaching them the basic grade school concept of it :/


When I went to college for advertising, we had to take a course in information theory because those who know it well, are more able to manipulate people into buying their products. Religious organizations for example know this well, and I will demonstrate how it works in religion when I get home from work :)

O.o ?? We don't have issues with interchangeability at all. Never have. And this doesn't mean we can magically wave our hands and heal ourselves. And it would be irrelevant if some nut case thinks he can heal himself, or someone else by waving his hands. However, it does mean that we can find ways to live longer and healthier lives, or improve technological advances in things like nano-technology to perhaps clear arteries ect..


Regardless, I am simply telling you facts here. :)

Are you claiming that morality is somehow the goal of the laws of nature?  How is morality latent in the laws of nature.  There is really nothing stored in the laws of nature that allow for morality to bubble up.  Can you see why this looks like philosopical dingbattery?  Really.

Can you tell me anything that is not apart of nature? Consciousness can obvious achieve and make goals.. behavioral evolution is listed under the definition of evolution:

Evolution (also known as biological or organic evolution) is the change over time in one or more inherited traits found in inter-breeding populations of organisms.[1] Inherited traits are particular distinguishing characteristics, including anatomical, biochemical or behavioural characteristics, that result from gene–environment interactions. Evolution may occur when there is variation of inherited traits within a population. The major sources of such variation are mutation, genetic recombination and gene flow.[2][3][4][5] This process has produced all the diversity of living organisms.

And there are many animals the exhibit moral dynamics or behaviors. One being self-preservation that leads to behavioral adaptations within a species to which will benefit it for the survival of the species. Other primates exhibit many traits of morality that we exhibit.









Orca's have been found to have social groups or even separation of social cultures in their behaviors:


Pretty much anything with a brain can exhibit moral behaviors, or dynamics. Some are more primitive than others. But morality is seen as typically more applicable to things with a brain. :)

Johny it was a direct answer to your question.. Evolution gets to a point where the brain has developed a means to process more information in abstract ect. It will obviously include further behavioral evolutionary processes that can lead to morality. Thus things with a brain is a given that GOALS can become self-directed, or self-organized.. What answer were you looking for? stating the obvious isn't helping the discussion :/ We are all apart of the evolutionary process and that includes the functionality of our behaviors and brains.

When evolution brings forth things with a brains, it can achieve having self-directed GOALS. Just like how enzymes exhibit self-directed cognitive dynamics.. Typically evolution does things unconsciously without any specific goals. That becomes a different story when you have things with brains, or things with Neural Networks. It becomes more complex in behavior, and thus things like morality evolve. Thus we can make our own behavioral rules, and laws. Evolution as I said isn't just restricted to the concept of changes in biochemistry.. It includes behavioral evolution.

Definition of LATENT : present and capable of emerging or developing but not now visible, obvious, active, or symptomatic
Perhaps not the best term to use in that sentence.. However morality is capable of emerging or developing within the laws of nature. As in, it can be an emerging property. And of course it is currently present in nature. So the argument is rather entirely moot. There is no need to discuss or argue the obvious :)
I have an old hi school friend, Kevin Moore, who is very big w/in control theory circles. I understand precise little about it. But, I think, it is closely related to info theory. It also relates to feedback loops. And, I think, what is being controlled is info..

From what I can gather from yall's exchange, yall are characterizing each others posts in a straw man fashion and talking past one another. It is a fairly common occurence, not to be upset over overly.

I don't know how to comment on this one except to say that not everyone who claims to be atheist is a true atheist, in fact many people claiming atheism don't even fully understand what that means.  I recently met a woman who claims she is an atheist but swears by her ouija board.. HONK.. FAIL !!!   nuff said.

  Cheers, Dave

It simply means that there is no belief in the existence of a GOD :) Which is pretty much a natural consequence to me being a realist. :) I've seen quite a few people myself trying to blur the lines, or don't seem to understand what an Atheist is :/



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