Both my wife and I are both ethical Vegans, We both find in disturbing how few people within the atheist community don't see the dietary indoctrination that surrounds us in the same way that they do Religious dogma. In some ways the two are often very related.....


Discussion please:




Vegan Ape

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Vaganape - I read an interesting book about heart disease - she thinks that it is due to pathogens in the body - creating build up on puss on the sides of the arteries from white blood cells - and the lipids made by the liver to clear them up after attacking the pathogens.... she things that probiotics and fermented foods will assist in keep the bio flora of the body balanced and protective against these pathogens....  because it's not just large people who get heart disease, it's thin people too - and I read somewhere else that there wasn't much correlation between the level of HDL and LDL and actual cases of heart attack.  Meaning that someone with really high levels of bad cholesterol might live fine and others with much lower levels were having heart attacks - which I think will happen more and more as people lower their bodies ability to respond to infection in the body, but reducing their fat intake - the role of HDL and LDL in the body is immune function....

The correlation between heart disease and animal fats id very well understood and studied. The predictions made the foundations of this premise are born out when the actual components are removed from the body in Autopsy.

Vegan ape - I heard different - that the puss that is found in autopsy is a result of choleserol - but how it got there is what I have heard disputed....

Our liver produces way more cholesterol than we consume - and even on a no cholesterol diet our liver will still produce cholesterol - it's part of our immune function.  It is our bodies lack of ability to remove the white blood cells that are attacking the pathogens quickly enough that causes the build up of plaque .... the body uses cholesterol to remove white blood cells....

This is not science, this sounds much more like a naturapaths woo woo explanation of something they do not understand. We know for a fact that cholesterol levels in the blood are associated with and the cause of these blockages. Have you got a link to the source of this data as it contradicts most 99% of all scientific data I have seen,,,,

yes sure - I'll lead myself to the slaughter..... LOL

Dr Natasha Campbell-McBrides book - Put Your Heart in your Mouth

And another book by Mary Enig called Eat Fat Lose Fat

I don't know how much they have on the websites - I got the information from reading the books - I have them both.... they site studies etc.... :)

Thanks will read through later.....cheers

I just had a look through and neither site gives away what's in the book - 

the first one has the theory about it being a pathogen problem and the second book gives detailed references about the origins of the modern mainstream theory - it is based on very little and has grown exponentially from there.....  you know about studies...  there are statistics statistics and dam lies... basically your premise dictates a lot about your results... :)

vegan - I think you'll probably find some you tubes of them somewhere......  although I haven't looked myself - perhaps I will :)

I will try and find a lecture of hers somewhere, I should be able to round something up. As if she has any credibility at all beyond a random hypothesis then there will be some peer reviewed articles by her.

Having a quick look around, She is about as credible as a climate change skeptic.....but I will keep looking.

She is a total quack, she is typical of most religious freaks I have met. Instead of taking the hard steps and changing to a healthier diet, She just redefines a high fat diet as healthy. We have a lot of religious freaks around here who are so anti-science that they still gulp down butter and hunt down non pasteurised milk...I would recommend against taking much of what she says as being supported by any science. It is defiantly totally contrary to any current science...Don't get me wrong gut flora is very important and I take a capsule a day now that I don't have yogurt...but it is no panacea or magic bullet.

vegan - I know it's no pancia - but I have read her book and it was very convincing to me - so it'll take more than that quite comment from you to dissuade me from my understanding....  I am though interested to discuss more... :)




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