Both my wife and I are both ethical Vegans, We both find in disturbing how few people within the atheist community don't see the dietary indoctrination that surrounds us in the same way that they do Religious dogma. In some ways the two are often very related.....


Discussion please:




Vegan Ape

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I am very suspicious of the westonAprice foundation, I only ever see them quoted in fringe sudo science areas and consistently see them quoted by former vegans and pale dieters. However as said even a blind squirrel discovers an acorn once in a while. So I would discredit all its ideas immediately. I just have a suspicion they are political...

"I am very suspicious of the westonAprice foundation,"

LOL - of course you are!

the site is good - in that it researches the original articles - we can all twist the evidence.....  so looking at the original gives us the best understanding..... I did this when I was diagnosed with Antiphospholipid antibodies....  it lead me to eating short protein chain foods - egg yolks, fish and meat...

vegan - 

yes well that's right - we all need to look for the science in here somewhere.......  the mainstream offers us one thing - but I'm not convinced, as I know about statistics and pharmaceutical companies and making money.... and humans...  not to say I'm not coming around - but at the end of the day we all need to do what works for us individually - even if it's not totally scientific.

For example - dr tell us that we must eat low fat, red meat not very often, fish twice a week and 5 veg and 2 fruit per day....

Well I just don't like processed foods - they don't sit well with me.....  margarine for example - I just can't bring myself to eat it......  so what do I do?  In other words, mainstream isn't the answer for me - so I look and I read.....  I try and when I fail, I look for solutions to try for myself......

Meinig GE. Root Canal Cover-Up: A Founder of the Association of Root Canal Specialists Discovers Evidence That Root Canals Damage Your Health: Learn What to Do. Ojai, CA: Bion Publishing. 1998.

Evolition will get you to 30, science will get you to old age


" evolution does not select for long term health, it selects for reproduction. Hence once you get to 

beyond 30 -40 you are in the hands of science and you can credit your longevity to that not evolved abilities to digest an omnivorous diet in a semi efficient fashion"


" As for the relevance to Atheism it is simple, Once you accept that man has no special place on the earth, you must also accept that we other mammalians at least share very similar levels of consciousness to our own. Due to this if a dietary option exists that lessens suffering for our fellow creatures why would you as an ethical atheist not choose it. If you were a theist you would just claim that god created them for us to exploit ( As we do)."

Well I am over 60 yrs and have eaten meat all of my life and without any intervention from science.  Am I just lucky?  I don't think so.

As for needing god to justify eating other animals - I am not aware of any of the other carnivorous mammals needing to have a god in order to live this way.

Thanks to science, when man kills for food, he is now able to do so much more humanely than any other carnivours.




You have had plenty of scientific intervention compared to someone from 10,000 years ago.

Most of your foods are fortified with vitamins and nutrients. You have had margarine to substitute butter (of course you must avoid cheap margarine with transfats).

If you are 60 I assume you have known others who are not so lucky but in general you obviously have avoided many pitfalls. You could however extend your chance of getting to 80 by reducing red meat intake and dairy. Any doctor would and does recommend it. Imagine what you could achieve if you eliminate them.

you can not attribute science to animal protein, Thats crazy.  We are not carnivores, we are omnivores and basically have adapted to consume meat on a an irregular basis hence the reason b12 last for months even years in the body.

in relation to previous post


 accept that we other mammalians 


meant to be  " accept that other mammalians"


excuse the typo.....



babies of vegans are less well developed than those eating an Indigenous diet...  Do what you like once you've finished having kids.... but until then make sure and eat meat, eggs, fish etc...

As I tried to point out in my initial post, whatever yr reasons for not eating meat, has NOTHING to do with believing in a supernatural being. Therefore stop trying to preach and impose yr way of life on others in a forum that has absolutely nothing to do with religious dogma. In fact don't Hindus not eat cows? and I think christians have a no meat or only fish on fridays or something? So whether or not I have to eat animals now to survive, I love being free to choose to eat many different foods, and I think most people would much prefer a well balanced diet consisting of either white and or some red meat, mixed with different fishes and other seafoods, combined with salad, vegetables, cheese and fruits which certainly beats a boring diet of rice, legumes & vitamin pill supplements any day. 

once you accept that we are not a creation then you have no more ethical justification to consume other mammals than you do to consume the flesh of a retarded human. that is the link.






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