Both my wife and I are both ethical Vegans, We both find in disturbing how few people within the atheist community don't see the dietary indoctrination that surrounds us in the same way that they do Religious dogma. In some ways the two are often very related.....


Discussion please:




Vegan Ape

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Replies to This Discussion

Veganape - would you be willing to give me like a meal list - just roughly what you'd eat, or someone with your diet would eat in a day or a week if there is enough variety and you have the time to write it down...

Yes I will do that...probably as a separate thread so as it is of use to everyone if you don't mind. May take a few days. but no problem,

I am mid to late 30's and my health is constantly improving and recovering from my 20's before I knew better. 

I would like tunnels and bridges to raise cars above, or tunnel them below road levels so that other animals can safely cross to avoid being run over.  That said, if some believe that sporadic meat in the diet is good for them, road kill and other animals who have died without our "assistance" could be eaten in good conscience.  Old aunt Mary might be tasty when she goes, too.  

I had often thought of that from the point of view of ethics. If one really wan'ts to eat meat maybe they should eat the dead. At least they would quickly learn how horrific meat consumption really is. I think people just need to step back and look what all this is doing to us. I just wan't to see the evolved intelligent ethical people change from our outdated ways and move on beyond the masses of clueless sheep. I am not sure how to convert the clueless sheep to ethical eating as they feel they have a god given right to eat animals. I think I might have an animal given right to send them to their

meat needs to be eaten fresh and from a healthy animal.....  only untimely death would work.....  lions kill and eat fresh flesh..... although some are scavengers.... along with vultures, hyenas et al...  I think your old aunt mary might be a bit tough....  although in India they do have a group who eat the dead - they live by the river Ganges and go around getting flesh from people burying their dead.

"meat needs to be eaten fresh and from a healthy animal.....only untimely death would work" 

"lions kill and eat fresh flesh"

     This is untrue carnivores do not have as many problems with "old meat"  as we do because they have evolved to eat it and have very short digestive tracts to suit.

 Lions don't eat healthy animals, they cut out the weak from the herd. We too would have eaten the weak not the healthy.

 The very fact that unlike carnivores we can only eat very well preserved meat that is cooked shows how unsuited we are to the task. We also have crappy teeth for meat.

I think you are running out of excuses and justifications...


You're a funny guy - and an optimist also - I've been vegetarian and vegan for many years, although about 14 years as an adult making my own food choices - and my mental health is so much better for including eggs, fish and meat in the last 3 - 5 years - personally I have much to loose from returning to a vegan diet - it really did sent me nuts - and when I go for a few days without eating eggs, fish or meat I start to get higher anxiety - which causes unwanted behaviour.  When I eat eggs, fish and meat, I am more grounded and calm - and have better social relationships and responses.  I don't know why, but for me, this is the case.

If you had of supplemented As I have stated you would not need to go to ridiculous lengths to get those few key components. You would then benefit form the best of both worlds. Many Vegans have very good Diets but where they often fail is supplementation. Have a look at all the studies done on creatine supplementation for Vegetarians. By the way even meat eaters need supplementation. Did you take calcium supplements when you were pregnant?...

No I didn't take calcium supplements.

I took something for my feet - can't remember what it was called.

I also found that my depression largely improved when I took Floradix Iron supplement.

Over the years I've taken Seleniam as a liquid, Zinc, Vit C Powder, multi vitamin for pregnancy, folate, I had a whole load of bottles in the fridge for years, can't remember half of them - one was a chelator for heavy metals - it was made from hemp I think - I took mineral supplements whilst taking the chelator - vitamin E capsules, flax oil...  basically I had no idea what I was doing - really I had anxiety and probably a lacking in some amino acid that caused it - and so searched the supplement aisle in the health food shop for stuff that might help....

One of the studies I saw said that there were 0.3 % of the UK population were vegan - how are you going to convert them all?  Surely you need some really good arguments to get them all converted?  I suppose also that once you have a critical mass converted it will have a natural knock on effect - but when is that turning point, and do you have enough resources and persuasive evidence to get that happening?

I think you need more than man power to get that happening - I think it would take a disaster to make that happen, where being vegan is one of a very few choices to survive - otherwise I don't see it happening.... 

The fact that you didn't take calcium supplements displays an ignorance of modern nutritional recommendations. When you lack calcium during pregnancy which most people do, The calcium is consumed from within your body structure to provide for the babies needs. Don't get me wrong the baby does not suffer it will get all it needs from you. But you will be sapped of calcium like an octopus mother dying at the end of its function. This increases the chances of osteoporosis in older age by a huge factor. I am sure your doctor would have suggested this....did you just ignore the science?

god I'm really getting a thrashing here..... :)

I didn't have doctors in any of my pregnancies - I was not told once by any of my midwifes to take calcium supplements.




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