I was just thinking about the host supposedly be the body and blood and all that. Wondered other than the cannibalistic nature of the concept what a vegetarian catholic would feel about this idea.

Do other religions have a similar concept? Amuses me to point out the absurdity of the idea.

So is there any other religion that has a similar concept and ever pointed out the concept to a catholic and what was the response?

Cheers and thanks to everyone for the great stuff every day.

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I see nothing contradictory about being both Catholic and a vegan. After all, the "body" is entirely symbolic. When I was a believer (childhood) we had "communion" at (Episcopal) church most Sundays, and I never once refused the wafer, pointing out that it wasn't flesh. But now that I think about it, communion itself is a brainwashing behavior modifying ritual that is designed solely to make one feel guilty if one does not do it on a regular basis. I guess I am so depraved I cannot see much that is humorous about religion.

Hate to take exception here James, but in Catholicism, it is decidedly not symbolic. Catholic dogma preaches the literal conversion of the bread and wine to the actual body and blood of Christ during the miracle of the Mass. It is the doctrine of transubstantiation

As it turns out, Christopher's idea here has merit (and humor, I might add). Kind of makes one wonder how much animal fat and protein is in the communion wafer after it magically transforms from an unleavened cracker to zombie flesh.

The transubstantiated communion wafer is even more magical because it still looks, tastes, and tests exactly like a wheat wafer.

In a stunning piece of newspeak, the Catholic Church calls those observable aspects of the wafer "accidents", and the magical yet utterly invisible and unverifiable body and blood the "substance". That sounds like parody, but I am not making this up!

(Catholic theologians borrowed the Aristotelian concept of "accident" as a nonessential property: whether a chair is made of wood or metal doesn't affect it being a chair.)

(This is begging for some sort of controlled experiment!...)

To bring in yet another religion, if the wafer had been hypothetically certified kosher and parve (no meat or dairy) before being transformed, the fact that a priest said prayers over it would do nothing to change that status!

And, I suppose, if someone were to take said wafer and, rather than eat it, take it to a local lab for assay, it would magically revert to its previous form, right?  Can't be questioning Yahweh's word now, can we???


That's why I said "and tests exactly like a wheat wafer"... every possible lab test would only reveal the wafer-like "accidents", exactly as if the wafer hadn't been consecrated and "transformed". Ditto for the wine; it wouldn't magically trade alcohol and grape products for hemoglobin and stuff.

Is there any claimed way whereby Catholics (priests?) can distinguish consecrated from non-consecrated elements?

"Only their hairdresser knows for sure!"

I don't think you guys have proper respect for miracles.


Craig, I think you're absolutely correct!

Grinning Cat, you asked, Is there any claimed way whereby Catholics (priests?) can distinguish consecrated from non-consecrated elements? 

I used to be an altar boy at Catholic Mass at 6:00 a.m. After mass, Father Dinan would suck down the rest of the wine, and head off for a bloody mary with the big parish $$$ contributors. By lunch, you could have probably given him a grilled ham and cheese, and convinced him it was the foreskin of John the Baptist. 

Maybe if a peice of meat is sitting around for 2000 years it might look like wheat. I would expect darker, likr jerky. Although being really pure, Jesus jerky might be white.

I dont think that's vegetarian. Unless you think the son of god was a vegetable.

A fruit or a nut.

As a fundie Pentecostal a long time ago, I remember communion with grape juice. (Didn't the Bibble say the Jebus turned the water into grape juice??) Just one time a realistic preacher decided we would have it with Mogan David wine. Afterwards they went back to the grape juice idea again because some did not like real wine used and thought it might send some alcoholic on a big rampage.

To this day the theists have books about wine and "new wine" pointing out that the holy people of Jebus' times were really sitting around and drinking grape juice. If any of it fermented it was do to the fact that it wasn't drank fast enough and they had no refrigeration.





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