I didn't know there was an option when my sons were born 50 years ago. It wasn't even presented as an option. I didn't even ask if there were options or what the justification was for the procedures.
As I understand it now, it was to differentiate god's accepted men, all others were "other". All these years and it is still practiced! and for what reason? I saw a film of a rabbi biting off the foreskin and almost vomited. How could any person, man or woman, bite off a piece of tissue of a newborn? How could any person take such an action unless religion dictated it. Of course Hitchens had a lot to say about it. In this clip, starting at about 3:00 Hitchens has his say
I think my parents didn't know there was an option either, when they allowed a doctor to do it to me 70 years ago, and my brothers as late as 50 years ago. The mormon church has no requirement, but it was generally practiced as a religious thing by members in those days, if I remember correctly.
I think we would be better off without it, and would have preferred it not have been done to me, but have no strong feelings about it.
I AM DAMN GLAD THAT IN 1934, MY SUMMA CUM LAUDE HARVARD GRAD FATHER DID NOT KNOW, OR PERHAPS, CARE IF IT WAS AN OPTION OR NOT!
AND ANY KID OF MINE IS GOING TO GET CUT!
PERIOD! END OF STORY!
Neil, when you write, "LOOK CHILDREN" to whom are you addressing?
ANYONE PHYSICALLY YOUNG THAN I AND I WAS BORN ON DEC., 26, 1934
AS WELL AS THOSE WHO LOGIC, KNOWLEDGE RATIONAL THOUGHT AND/OR WHOSE CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS NEED IMPROVEMENT..
ONLY AS SOME SEEM TO NOT BE ABLE TO NOT HANDLE BLUNT HONESTY, I SHALL CEASE USING IT.
Did any comment I made cause you to include me when you wrote,
"AS WELL AS THOSE WHO LOGIC, KNOWLEDGE RATIONAL THOUGHT AND/OR WHOSE CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS NEED IMPROVEMENT.."
If so, I would appreciate a direct statement to me, or to whomever you include in your statement. Such a broad brush is suspect of not being worthy of attention.
NO YOUNG LADY, YOU CAME NO WHERE CLOSE!
THE GUY WHO STARTED THIS THREAD JUMPED ON ME FOR NO VALID REASON AND SO I REACTED.I GUESS BEING A MACHO MALE WHO IS CONSTANTLY (DUE WHERE FINANCES FORCE ME TO LIVE) IS PUTTING HIS PHYSICAL WELL BEING AND LIFE ON THE LINE TO STOP ASSAULTS ON OTHERS, DOES NOT HELP MY INTERNET PRESENCE., THEN BEING A PARATROOPER (ONCE ONE ALWAYS ONE) A FORMER DEEP SEA DIVER AND A BOUNCER (AMONG MANY OTHER PROFESSIONS) DOES NOT ADD TO MY GENTLENESS EITHER..
Neil, let's back up a minute. First of all, typing in all capital letters is called "flaming" and it is considered a bullying technique in internet communication. It is fine to use it, but it is just rude to assault everyone with this procedure.
Second. Your birthdate has no correlation with whether one acts as a child or an adult. Immature attitudes reveal themselves in words chosen and positions taken. If you want me to respond to you as an adult, you have to offer me a reason to do so.
Third, I like honesty and use it more than I should. However, to give a blanket bluntly honest statement without offering anyone a clue about what you rant about is the behavior of a spoiled brat or a sophomoric adolescent. So, be honest, be clear, be specific, be concrete about your complaint and I, and I assume we, will respond in a mentally healthy, mature way.
Fourth, your comments come across to me as someone with whom I do not want to have a conversation. I feel bullied, personally, and had to ask if I were the one to whom you addressed your vitriolic comments. I have a tough skin and can take honest criticism. Many of the people on this string are intelligent and thoughtful people and some of them have challenged me on my thinking. With discussion, clarification, exploration, many times I have very happily agreed that I made a poor judgement. Other times I have been able to convince others that I have a point.
This is no a war zone and if you make it one, I will block you from my mail.
FYI ALL, NOT ONLY IS NO ONE IS FORCING ANYONE TO READ ONE WORD OF WHAT I SAY.
NO ONE IS EVEN ASKING YOU TO READ MY POSTS
SO IF YOU DO, IT IS YOUR PROBLEM IF YOU DO NOT LIKE WHAT I SAY!
YOU MADE THE CHOICE TO READ IT. DUH!
TIME FOR A LESSON IN LOGIC
Neil, let's back up a minute. First of all, typing in all capital letters is called "flaming" and it is considered a bullying technique in Internet communication.
FIRST: YOU HAVE CHOSEN TO PICK THIS FIGHT
SECOND: IN MY VIEW YOU HAVE NOW PLACED YOURSELF IN THE ILLOGICAL, IRRATIONAL AND THE FOLLOW THE LEMMINGS CLASS
THIRD: I SHOULD NOT HAVE TO INFORM ANYONE AS OLD AS YOU ARE THAT FOR MANY MANY YEARS, BEFORE THE INTERNET, ALL ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS WERE IN ALL CAPS!
AND AS FAR AS I CAN REMEMBER, FOR A FEW YEARS ON THE INTERNET, NO ONE CARED IF ALL CAPS WERE USED OF NOT. THEN ONE PERSON DECIDES HE, OR SHE, DID NOT LIKE ALL CAPS AND STARTED THIS B.S. ABOUT THEM BEING SOMEHOW BAD. AND OF COURSE ALL THE SHEEP OF THE WORLD JUST FOLLOWED ALONG!
(KIND OF LIKE J.C. AND HIS FLOCK)
FORTH. SOME OF WE OLDER PEOPLE USE ALL CAPS AS THEY ARE EASIER FOR US TO READ!
AGAIN, NO ONE FORCES YOU, OR ANYONE ELSE, TO READ WHAT I POST!
It is fine to use it, but it is just rude to assault everyone with this procedure.
NO. IT IS NOT RUDE TO THE TRULY LOGICAL AND RATIONAL.
Second. Your birthdate has no correlation with whether one acts as a child or an adult.
IF YOU HAD READ WITH A HIGHER DEGREE OF COMPREHENSION, YOU WOULD KNOW I NEVER SAID IT DID!
Immature attitudes reveal themselves in words chosen and positions taken. If you want me to respond to you as an adult, you have to offer me a reason to do so.
YOU MEAN LIKE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT ALL CAPS?
AS I HAVE RECEIVED TOTALLY UNSOLICITED PRAISE FROM BOTH EUROPEANS AND AMERICANS FOR MY HONESTY / TRUTHFULNESS, KNOWLEDGE, WISDOM, USE OF LOGIC, HIGH INTELLIGENCE. WILLINGNESS TO PROVEN WRONG, OPENNESS, ABILITY TO CLEARLY COMMUNICATE MY VIEWS, ETC. ETC.
AND AS HAVE SERVED MY COUNTY LONGER THAN MOST, GIVEN MORE BLOOD THAN MOST, SAVED MORE LIVES THAN MOST, RECEIVED MORE AWARDS FOR DOING GOOD THINGS THAN MOST, HELPED MORE OTHERS ATHAN MOST AND AS I HAVE STOPPED MORE CRIMINALS FROM COMPLETING THEIR ASSAULTS ON OTHERS THAN HAVE NEARLY ANY OTHERS NOT IN NON-LAW ENFORCEMENT, DO YOU REALLY THINK I CARE IF YOU THINK I AM AN ADULT?
Third, I like honesty
REALLY? THEN YOU SHOULD LOVE ME AS THERE ARE MANY WHO KNOW ME WELL WHO WILL ATTEST TO MY BEING ONE OF, IF NOT THE SINGLE MOST HONEST PERSON THEY HAVE EVER KNOWN. (AND SOME OF THOSE WHO WILL SO ATTEST HAVE KNOWN ME SINCE 1948)
and use it more than I should.
IN MY VIEW, NO ONE USES HONESTY MORE THAN THEY SHOULD
However, to give a blanket bluntly honest statement without offering anyone a clue about what you rant about is the behavior of a spoiled brat or a sophomoric adolescent. So, be honest, be clear, be specific, be concrete about your complaint and I, and I assume we, will respond in a mentally healthy, mature way.
AGAIN, NO ONE FORCED, OR EVEN ASKED YOU (OR ANYONE ELSE) TO READ A SINGLE THING OF WHAT I SAID.
SO IF YOU MAKE THE CHOICE TO READ MY POSTS, DEAL WITH IT!
Fourth, your comments come across to me as someone with whom I do not want to have a conversation.
THEN DO NOT HAVE ONE, NO ONE IS TWISTING YOUR ARM TO DO SO!
I feel bullied, personally,
THEN MAYBE YOU SHOULD GROW UP AND LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD.
and had to ask if I were the one to whom you addressed your vitriolic comments.
SAYING "CHILDREN" IS "VITRIOLIC"? WOW! HAVE YOU LED A VERY SHELTERED LIFE.
I have a tough skin
REALLY? IT IS MOST CERTAINLY NOT DEMONSTRATED
and can take honest criticism.
Many of the people on this string are intelligent and thoughtful people and some of them have challenged me on my thinking. With discussion, clarification, exploration, many times I have very happily agreed that I made a poor judgement. Other times I have been able to convince others that I have a point.
GOOD ON THEM, AND YOU.
This is no a war zone and if you make it one,
YOU ARE THE ONE WHO GOT ALL PUSHED OUT OF SHAPE OVER LITTLE THINGS
I will block you from my mail.
IT WOULD BE YOUR LOSS! AS ANYONE WHO CARES TO CAN PLAINLY SEE I'VE ALREADY POSTED BOTH MORE USEFUL FACTS AND INFORMATION, THAN, I WILL WAGER, HAVE MANY HAVE AFTER THEIR BEING HERE FOR YEARS.
DO YOU WANT MY FRIEND CAROLYN, WHO WAS BORN IN 1923, EMAIL ADDRESS SO YOU CAN GIVE HER GRIEF ABOUT WRITING IN ALL CAPS?
IF YOU DID, SHE MAKE ME LOOK MILD IN RESPONSE.
Let's keep it civil and respectful. That is a requirement for use of Nexus. There are often disagreements of opinion, no problem. But civility is important.
Your response does not show thoughtfulness or respect. The all-caps mode makes the text look like shouting.
50 years ago most parents were not told there was an option. Plus, people didn't talk about topics such as this.
What bothers me now is in the medical community, there is still wide, unquestioning, acceptance for routine circumcision. Someone who is against the procedure is considered a crack-pot.
There is a lot of passion by anti-circumcision people. I am against routine use of the procedure, and I am against unquestioned acceptance of almost anything. Now there are post-modern excuses for doing it, that didn't exist when vast numbers of baby boys were first subjected to circumcision. But, with the vast majority of American men having been circumcised for generations, and the vast majority of those having functioned just fine sexually, it's not my highest priority. I just think it's a waste, kind of prudish, kind of an abuse, and kind of an excuse for medical systems to obtain a "tax" on families for the cost of doing it.