I think one of the things that we far too often overlook in this country is that fact that genital mutilation of newborn boys is common practice, if not standard. Why isn't there more of a cry against this? Do the benefits of circumcision (if any, and I don't see any valid argument that there are any) outweigh the cost and mutilation of a boy?

Of course circumcision isn't the only genital mutilation in the world, but it's the only type in practice in the United States. Female genital mutilation is just as barbaric, if not more so. Americans, and Europeans in general, ban female genital mutilation of babies, but why the hypocrisy in not doing the same for males?

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if any group has enough power to stop the legislation...its them...

This week my beloved John Stewart Daily Show had Bono as a guest. His foundation has raised a bazillion dollars to fight AIDS.

He concluded his interview with a circumcision promotion!!!!! ARRRGGGGHHHH!

The link provided is to a peer to peer page. USA readers/viewers should probably go to the show's real streaming web pages to watch the episode... Nov.30.


before people get to warm and fuzzy

i would suggest that you do the research....

raising a kazzillion dollars to fight AIDS, really means to perpetuate the disease...

us patent 5679677 thats the patented cure for AIDS..1996...

the doctor montpellier( the dude who FOUND HIV) has said that it doesnt cause aids...

hiv has never been isolated in any laboratory on planet earth...

etc etc etc

look into the bangui classification

watch the documentary " the house of numbers"

im just gonna start a thread lol

phuck it...

sorry to railroad.. but i have noticed an abundance of "alternative" lifestylers online, and think this may help a loved one a relative etc.

peace and progress

bono is working for someone...

that is why he plugged the medical procedure of circumcision...

I refer you to pages 1-39 :)

The financial cost of the procedure differs depending on location. Sometimes it is covered by public healthcare and sometimes it is not. The gross financial cost of a neonatal circumcision in the first world is usually hundreds of dollars. Circumcision in the USA is a billion-dollar-a-year industry.

However, I take from your use of inverted commas that you are not referring to financial cost but to the negative effects of the procedure. In this regard, the cost of circumcision is a loss of sensitivity, sensation and sexual function. The foreskin is removed and, with it, thousands of nerve-endings. The glans, a biologically internal organ, is permanently exposed leading to keratinisation of its surface. And the penile shaft skin is, depending on how much skin is removed, rendered largely or sometimes even wholly immobile. This affects the sex act for all parties involved, male and female.

The circumcision procedure causes trauma and pain to the baby and thusly affects the brain and mind. How this affects each individual is probably unique, but it is arguably one of the most damaging things to do to such a fragile and impressionable nervous system and psyche. The experiences we have as fetuses, infants, children and adolescents, affect us for life. And it is likely that the younger we are, the greater is the effect of a positive or negative experience.

How society is affected by generations of traumatised males is open to debate. There is a possibility that genital mutilation and other such barbaric child-rearing practices feed into a patriarchal culture that values aggression and war, and devalues emotions and sensitivity.

The additional cost of botched jobs is that many babies die and thus many parents lose their sons. Equally as bad, or perhaps worse, is that many males have their sex lives destroyed; botched jobs can damage the penis beyond repair: sever vital nerves, sever the penis, or leave the penis so horribly scarred or deformed as to seriously affect self-esteem.

All of this can be prevented and avoided by simply leaving the baby as he is born. We do this for girls and it is about time that boys were shown the same respect. If a male or female wants to have their genitals or any other body-part surgically altered for cosmetic or other reasons then they should be free to do so when they come of age. Such decisions should be left in the hands of the 'owner' of the body because they have to live with it.

I was ,"cut" when I was four years old.
they yanked my tonsils at the same time, so I was sore at both ends.

I have not yet forgiven my mom for having it done.
And I do not plan to do so

yep tonsil removal, another medical myth. Mine were yanked at age 7... to stop my cough! Needless to say, that didn't make a difference... Both my parents smoked 3 packs a day. yuk. Stupid doctors.


has anyone ever done the research and found the ANSWER to why circumcision even came into existence?

in my OPINION it is not barbaric to circumcise a male child...( vs circumcising a male adult...ouch )

i am not circumcised, and neither is my father...

not sure bout grand dad lol

now forget about ME and forget about YOU and lets analyse WHY circumcision came about...

in ancient texts it is said that the foreskin of some males would continue to grow, and or be too excessive, sometimes closing over itself...

to prevent this from occuring

circumcision became common place for the people of that REGION..

religious beliefs generally are based on SCIENTIFIC PHENOMENON that knuckledraggers observed and couldnt comprehend.

they didnt just spring out of nowhere...

thus discarding information just because its "religious" is juvenile.

the ancients had a saying:

science is visible spirituality

and spirituality is unseen science....

this schism between logic/science and spirituality is quite recent....

There ARE only religious reasons for the origins of circumcision.

The very earliest examples of circumcisions were for religious/ritualistic reasons.

"In 10,000 BCE Aboriginal tribes in central and desert regions of Australia introduce circumcision of boys as puberty rite...

6000 BCE Circumcision (male and female) practised as puberty rite by tribes in north-eastern African and Arabian peninsula...

3100 BCE Egypt invaded from the south, perhaps by African tribes bringing circumcision with them.

Herodotus (485-420 BCE) observes and deplores circumcision among the Colchians, Ethiopians, Phoenicians, Syrians, and Macrones, as well as the Egyptian priestly caste. He criticises the fanatical ritual cleanliness of the Egyptian priests: "They [even] practice circumcision for the sake of cleanliness, considering it better to be clean than handsome" - a perverse sacrifice in Greek eyes..."

And don't start thinking that 'cleanliness' necessarily means in terms of health. There is also the idea of 'spiritual cleanliness'. Let's not forget that pigs and some shellfish are/were considered unclean. And why's that? ...because god said so...

I think circumcision was always meant as some kind of sacrifice. The same way that people sacrificed a goat/person/% of their crops for the sake of the following years' crop or the welfare of the tribe. You give a bit of yourself to demonstrate humility and humbleness in the hope that, in return, you will receive special treatment from the gods.

This sacrifice concept worked its way up into Christianity and ultimately culminated in the concept of the crucifixion - the supposed 'sacrifice for the welfare of the whole of mankind'.

Jesus is basically one big metaphorical foreskin.

in my OPINION it is not barbaric to circumcise a male child

Tell that to the Jewish kids that died of herpes virus because the rabbi that circumcised them drew the blood out of their penises with his infected mouth. This isn't in ancient history, this is happening now in NYC and no doubt elsewhere.

In summary: barbaric ignorant superstitious crap invented by barbaric ignorant primitive people.

I suspect that life in a desert environment (previous to any Jesus myth), where water to wash oneself was rare, it is not impossible that circumcised babies were lower maintenance. Maybe such an observation became a moral, which got written up. Homo sapiens have not evolved for desert environments, we are temperate creatures, who can only successfully survive other climes through great modification of self or said environment. Once removed from the sub optimal environment, there is simply no justification to continue this barbaric practice.

Absent some myth-based reason to avoid touching the genitals, I doubt that having a foreskin is a liability in any climate.  Sterile urine exiting the body flushes any space within the foreskin to a hygenic (health-inducing) state.  For easily retractable intact adults to benefit from this flush, they may need to grip the skin tube during urination to cause some back pressure.  IF a) your myth says it's taboo to contact bodily fluids, and b) you're in a desert with no wash water, THEN hygiene for adults may be easier with no foreskin and died out mucosal surfaces. 

Quite possible indeed. Multiple causes surely coexisted.




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