I have been trying to maintain my peace and equilibrium these past few days, knowing the wingnuts were going to come out of the woodwork after the shooting in Newtown, trying to make political headway/religious headway out of this senseless act. I expect bullshit from the politicians, even the Westwood Baptist Church. Ray Comfort, James Dobson and that ilk doesn’t surprise me. Par for the course for them. Reprehensible? Yes. Evil? Yes. Lacking any shred of common decency for your fellow man? Yes. So what else is new about that. Nothing. It’s what they do.


     But what is really yanking my chain is the response from everyday people around me. Actually agreeing with these sanctimonious, depraved, vile, abject, base, corrupt, loathsome, perverted, nefarious, repugnant, sleazy “men of god”. Not all, of course, but enough to make me want to scream and pull out my hair. How the fuck can a loving god allow this? Because we have taken god out of the schools. Simple. Yeah, forcing Muslims, Buddhists, Jews and all others to repeat Christian prayers in school will magically make all violence disappear.  Yeah, well all I have to say is FUCK YOU!!!


     People, open your eyes. Think. This was not “allowed to happen”. This was not a “judgement on America”. This has nothing to do with god, religion, gays marrying, legalizing pot, or anything else you can try to attach to this all too human tragedy. These people were not “called home”. A sick and perverted individual, who had access to assault style weaponry, did it.


     And while I’m at it, I also don’t want to hear “guns don’t kill people, people kill people”. If there has ever been a more idiotic saying, I simply can’t think of it now. Duh.


     I know this was kinda rambling, but I’m pissed, and just had to get this off my chest. Thanks for letting me vent.

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When you think about it, if we go down the path these people are trying to beat us into following, we would be making ourselves exactly what the Jihadists said we were. It's terrifying. We would be justifying 9/11.

H. P., consider the proposition that 9/11 was justified, in Middle Easterners' minds, by American foreign policy in their lands since at least 1953 when our CIA overthrew Iran's elected leader, installed a tyrant, and trained his secret police to frighten Iranians into obedience.

Over oil. I had just returned from the Korean War and the news outraged me.

England's Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (now BP) was behaving like America's robber barons of the late 1800s. Iran's new elected government (their first, as I recall) wanted a higher royalty (nearer what the U.S. was paying Saudi Arabia) and other improvements. The CIA first asked President Truman to okay the overthrow and he refused. Soon after Eisenhower became president, he consented to the overthrow.

America aborted their attempt at democracy. After Iranians overthrew their tyrant, their religious crazies took over.

There's a lot more info in Wikipedia and elsewhere.

We do not know he was crazy. We do not know his motivations at all. No evidence is forthcoming indicating he had any sort of mental illness, as diagnosed by a licenced psychiatrist or physician.

"Crazy" is not defined as killing a certain amount of people (I kill one at a school, I am a murderer, I kill thirty, I am crazy).

Stigma of the truly mentally ill, however, is all too real. And when the press, blogs, fora, and other such places sling about jack-leg diagnoses of "he had Asperger's" and such with no evidence, it makes it that much harder for people with real mental disorders.

The mentally ill are eleven times more likely to be the victims of violence than other people, and one-quarter are the victims of crime every year.

Sceptics of course should be sceptical of press claims of "crazy" without evidence. So should atheists.

I don't think anyone here is calling the shooter "crazy".  It's natural for a person to say, about some tragedy, "The people involved aren't like we are.  That could never happen to folks like us!"  But that's just the sort of gut-thinking that we ought to put second to logic.

In any case, I personally wasn't commenting about the shooter at all.  I mean folks like Dobson and the like.  Al Qaeda based their attacks on the false premise that they were kicking a militant, Christian goliath in the shins.  But the truth is, America isn't, at it's heart, Christian.  But folks like Dobson would that it were, and if they had their way, the false premise Al Qaeda was working with would be false no longer.

That is true. He is being called crazy on other sites. Here the poster writes he was a sick and perverted individual.

I might buy perverted, as murder is, ipso facto, perverse. Sick has many definitions.

Tony, those sanctimonious, depraved, vile, abject, base, corrupt, loathsome, perverted, nefarious, repugnant, sleazy men of god are in business for themselves. They're wanting people who agree with them to send them money.

WARNING: I'm about to be facetious.

Are you opposed to free enterprise capitalism? Are you (how awful) a socialist?

Jesus was a socialist. But the religious and the GOP do not let that little inconvenience get in the way of their rhetoric.

He took business away from bakers and fishers and from the money men he chased out of the temple.

He was a radical socialist.

An xian at Conservapedia even edited the NT to take out the socialism.

Isn't it cute when they go cutting and pasting their "holy" books?

And yet say they are "inspired" or "written by God," and thus infallible, and holy, and unchanging.

"If you don't want tax dollars helping the sick and the poor, then it's time to stop saying you want a government based on Christian values."—John Fugelsan, political satirist.

Tony, thanks for venting. Feel free to discuss whatever is on your mind.

In the interest of accuracy:

I've read that during the U.S. Civil War, soldiers (all of them either pitiable fools or damn fools) occasionally fired all their bullets and used their rifles as clubs kill their enemy. When they succeeded, they could truthfully say guns killed.

When I was in the U.S. Navy off North Korea, I was more concerned about shrapnel from shells fired by onshore guns than I was about the guns.

In short, my fellow emoting freethinkers, guns seldom kill people, bullets do.




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