I define faith as believing in something that is obviously false. Belief in something that is clearly impossible, untrue, a lie.

"In spite of the fact that George drank every day for 17 years, Jan had faith that he would stop today."

"faith of a mustard seed you can command a mountain to move"

Faith is belief in the ridiculous, the stupid, the invisible, the unproven, the impossible. Faith is identical to delusion.

It does not take faith to belief in things like scientific theories, because they are obviously true. They come with evidence. Faith is belief that the world is 6000 years old in spite of overwhelming physical, falsifiable evidence to the contrary.

How do you define faith?

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EXACTLY!!!! Thank you!

That is what I'm getting at with the OP, Faith is not good, and its smokescreen is ambiguity.

It is obviously incredulous to say "I think broccoli is red". People who think that are delusional and need to be judged as so by society, and certainly not put in any position where judgment of colors is important, say, when driving.

If you have faith the earth is 6000 years old, its very important you are not allowed to teach children about geology.

This is not just about language police and wasting space, this is the very pressing need for our society to get past this dangerous religious cancer we suffer under, and not tolerate any ambiguity, least of all in our A/N ! Faith is why millions of children were sexually abused by priests. Faith is why George Bush was able to launch an illegal war in Iraq resulting in the deaths of millions. Faith is why science is unable to proceed with Stem Cell research in the US, why homosexuals are discriminated against, why racism exists. Serious stuff!
Where did all the posts from Don go???

when I went back to my email and clicked to go to one of his responses I was told it was deleted.
By whom?
How does one delete a post?
What's up? I haven't seen this before.
Yeah, I was wondering why you were suddenly talking to yourself.
Yea, I'm beginning to wonder myself. I don't think that "Don" was a figment of my imagination. Now, I'm not so sure.
If I could figure out how to do this trick, I could make people look really silly if they choose to reply to some off-the-wall post that I could later delete.

I wonder how he did it.
He left A/N. When you do that, everything you ever did is gone.

He was probably fed up with arguing with the Atheist Dictionary Keepers who are vane enough to think their definition of a term trumps any standard dictionary.

But this is Atheist Nexus.
This is where WE decide what faith is,

The day any atheist or atheists here decide what anything is beyond the disbelief in god or gods, is the day I'll quit this site too.

It's a shame. Don was a good man.
Don is gone because he was in over his head and realized he didn’t know what he was talking about ... or ... he was caught being on A/N to sell a bogus gold buying scheme ... or ... he realized he was wrong when he had to defend the indefensible position that words have no specificity.

I agree with ryan cameron when he said:

***”My issue is this, religious apologists thrive on this grey-ing of terms, and the confusion between different interpretations of the word faith, and in that way, they maintain that their "faith" is good for society, even though it truly is delusional.”

And preachers weave their magic spells using words one way in one sentence and another way in the next sentence.
Try having a conversation with a Christian about “soul” for example.

Faith is a singular concept. It is also an extraordinarily simple one. Why some of you try to complicate its definition is a mystery to me, unless you are here to sabotage discussions. Is that your purpose?

So, Dave, when you write:

***”The day any atheist or atheists here decide what anything is beyond the disbelief in god or gods, is the day I'll quit this site too.”

you demonstrate two very important things:
1) You and I don’t agree as to what an atheist is,
2) You are in conflict with the very purpose of A/N.

Aren't we here to shuffle off this mushy coil of imprecise thinking and reasoning that plagues the theist world?
Aren't we here to impose a bit of logic, some scientific reasoning, and precision upon the language we at A/N use?

Or is it more comfortable for you to impose your linguistic ambiguity on the rest of us?

If so, Take The Nerd with you.

I have no misgivings concerning religious faith. (I wrote this 6 months ago.)

I have no misgivings concerning the definition of atheism. I do not believe in any god or gods. It's as simple and precise as that. How anyone wants to define it beyond that is just someone's personal mental masturbation exercise. You and everyone else have every right to undertake that exercise. I usually just ignore these farts in the wind. The amount of server space taken up by the wanna-be atheist dictionary writers of this website is amazing. You're not the first and you won't be the last.

When they make you the pope of atheism you can define all the terms and set all the criteria for being a true atheist. But just as I don't give a crap what the pope of my long-gone religion has to say about anything, I could care even less what you think an atheist should be or what you think the very purpose of this website is.
"Faith is believing what you know ain't so." Mark Twain
I like the biblical definition of faith from Hebrews 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

This is clearly the same wishful thinking which is really the basis of religion.
I'm sorry to see Don leave, but I'm not surprised. He seemed to want to hold on to his cherished beliefs for a while longer. I was kind of surprised at some of his remarks.

As for these "atheist dictionary keeper" slights, come on, really? Are we going to sit here avoiding any controversy? Communication with ambiguity is not communication at all, its just participants talking and not listening. If I say faith, and you say faith, and we both mean two completely different things, but we dont stop to clarify, then who are we really talking to other than ourselves respectively?

My ego isnt big enough to do that. My personality dictates that I seek precision in language so I really can understand what others are saying, and make certain people listening to me understand me too.

What is the point in writing words down for others to read if there is no dictionary anyway? We might as well just be shouting gobbeldy gook at each other. It seems to me, one of the biggest problems with religious faith is the lack of a standardized language, in which ignorance flourishes, because no one can really understand anything.
"I define ________ to be..." is as egotistical as it is useless. A dozen different dictionaries define faith basically the same way. If anyone doesn't understand those definitions, that's their problem. If they can't distinguish between the religious and non-religious use of the word faith, that's their problem too. I'm definitely not put on this earth to explain the dictionary to you or anyone. Hence the reason why I usually avoid these "farts in the wind" discussions.

How you, I or anyone defines any word in their own terms is arrogant, pointless and futile. Am I suppose to remember how you define every term when we communicate? Should we rush this discussion's findings to the dictionary publishers so they know how a handful of people in an inconsequential discussion, on a small website in the corner of the internet has decided what faith means and what is doesn't? Stop the presses! Should we put a warning label on the main page of A/N that the word faith must be used only in a particular manner so you know precisely what someone means?

What is the point in writing words down for others to read if there is no dictionary anyway?
There are many dictionaries that defines and standardizes almost all the words in the same manner. If I have to use your personal dictionary to communicate with you, I really don't see how that standardizes anything.
My statement of "I define faith to be..." is preceeded by "i" because it refers to me, the OP, seeking to make a statement about what I believe to be the case, and opening up a discussion. It is not a universal, blanket statement, if it were I would have said "Faith is..and anyone who thinks different than me is wrong" That would be arrogant.

I'm not making up a personal "dictionary", I am simply communicating and seeking precision and understanding in language so we are on the same page for the sake of the point, which isnt to define faith, but to get to the root of the problem with religions justifying their anti science, anti intellectualism, and the dangers inherent.

By mixing the various definitions of faith, the "good kind" with the "crazy kind", religious leaders are able to slip under the rule of skepticism and fool followers into thinking their delusional brand of faith is on par with pillars of society such as trust, hope, and love.



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