I have noticed atheists coming out in support of homosexuals. Do some feel that supporting homosexuality is a necessary part of atheism ? Or, do they support homosexuality simply because religion opposes it? What is the attitude of atheists in general to homosexuality? Where homosexuality deserves support and where it should not be supported?


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as well if there are more bisexual people than there are homosexual people, then doesnt that obviously imply that the sexual orientation is a CHOICE?

ill digress

when was the first test tube baby successfully grown?

when was the first sperm bank established?

ok..scroll back 200 yrs 

would you and i exist today if the planet turned gay over night, 200 yrs before the first sperm bank/in vitro came into existence?



carry on with the fallacious tangential statements.


straights being welcomed among you?


so the 1000 will be welcomed by the 1...oh how generous of you...

is it just me or is that a very delusional disposition..

a minority saying "its ok for you to be_______" to the majority...

this isnt the 1920's and the deep south, where that logic can actually stand firm.


no one has cared to address the core issue


do people who eat oranges need support?


talk about a bunch of whiny children.

The discussion is about supporting equal rights for homosexuals, meaning getting rid of discriminatory laws.

Sexual orientation is not a choice, why do you believe it is?

Maybe nafir is just mostly ignorant.

nafir - no - being bi-sexual doesn't imply that sexuality is a choice - it just means that you only got half the biology :)  like someone said before - it's a spectrum thing.... :)

nafir - why do homosexuals need support - 

well - to my mind any minority or marginalised group needs support to gain equal well being - if a group is abused based on their circumstances of sexuality or anything else - then they need the rest of society to be aware of the differences in needs - such as to be able to marry the same sex, and be seen by society as partners when it comes to taxation and other laws of the land.  

If we had a law that it was taboo to eat oranges - then people who needed to eat oranges because they had no other source of vitamin C, would need special consideration - because that law would infringe on their personal sense of well being - because they had a specific need for oranges....  to take a silly metaphor.... :)

nafir nun - you seem to be working with false premises - or are misinformed - 

I'm not sure who has suggested that being gay is about nurture, or that it is a choice....

from my understanding being gay is about biology - you are born with it....  also, sperm donation, can be as simple as two gay people having sex to create a child - it doesn't need to include all the medical stuff....  or using a baster...  

also probably most of the children I know that have been raised by gay parents, even when both parents were gay - are straight - so if nurture has anything to do with it - it's not working very well - in my personal experience.

I see a lot of projection in what you have written. And abuse of the concept of "logic". You have merely replaced "God is on my side" with "logic is on my side" when in either case it is your own opinion.

I agree, Logic is often quoted like a call to authority....but it is a skyhook of an authority because logic can in instances be relative.....or you could just claim logic when all you have is bullish*t.....either way interesting point

OK everyone - I really think to understand this all better we need to look at the differences between India and America/the west regarding homosexuality.

A story from the west:

A boy grows up, he falls in love, he plans to marry the love of his life, but he can't, because it's another man.

A story I heard when I was in India:

A guy has an arranged marriage, he has some kids, he has a job as a truck driver.  He's on the road for long periods.  He has homosexual sex with other truck drivers.  He contracts HIV.  He passes on HIV to other truck drivers that he has sex with.  He then goes home and gives HIV to his wife.

Two very different perspectives on homosexuality here.....

the nerd - any process needs to be done in stages - it is very difficult for someone at the start of a process to be launched fully into the end product and not feel shocked, uncomfortable and resistance / denial in fact.  I think we need to meet people where they are at, if we want to provide them with education and understanding.  Otherwise we are just spouting propaganda that has no meaning - and simply causes rifts, misunderstanding and divides.  Things seem fixed, but they are not - everything if done slowly and step by step can be changed - but it needs sensitivity to current placement on all sides.  I think it an important task to assist my fellow atheists to 'see the light' when it comes to social justice etc - as well as allowing myself to be changed by more enlightened others around me.

I see what you are saying Alice, I have friends from India too, and when I came out to one of my friends she had never (knowingly) met a non-straight person. She accepted me even though she had some reservations. I don't need everyone to feel 100% thrilled about it because it is only one aspect of me and people still care for people even if they don't agree with everything or think they should do something differently.

I do understand that other cultures are at a different point but also don't want to be dishonest, sugarcoat, or give someone a free pass.

I agree - so education in steps and stages needs to do it in a way that isn't sugarcoated, dishonest or giving out free passes - 

So what about asking questions to understand clearly why they think the way they do - then challenge each point - and get them to question their motivations step by step - that isn't sugar coating - it's just aiming to educate and get to the bottom of it all.... with a bit of personal questioning too perhaps .....  I realise that being gay would mean that you might be defensive of your position - as it is a non mainstream place - and comes under attack from mainstream society - so I find that positions such as these - being gay, vegan, vegetarian, whatever minority group you like - it's tough to then take a educational leadership type role, that doesn't get offended or effected by ignorance or mainstream arrogance of position.....  or fear of the unknown leading to attack etc....  I don't know - I'm not perfect - but I'm finding that what I like about discussions on here is that I can pretty much be myself - and make lots of mistakes and someone usually explains it too me if I ask enough.....  even when I totally put my foot in it.....

Our political correctness is quite well known in our educated western society - but I think it needs to be ok to make political correct faux pas in order to alert others to your need for education.... if you know what I mean :)

I did watch a doco on that but there was as many blokes having sex with female prostitutes and bringing aids home.....So I think that may be tainting the Gay indian community a little harshly. That said I am pretty clueless on all this especially when it comes to foreign countries.....I suppose my comments are mainly based on a desire of how the world ought to be, rather than how it is...I don't know...further input required for me.....lol.....that may not have been the best choice of words....oh well...




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