Apparently you can't do polls on here.... but

Do any of you think that Jesus actually existed? What do category do you fall into?

A. Believed he existed, claims are false

B. Believed he existed, claims are exaggerated

C. Don't believe he existed

D. Believe he existed, claims are true (sorry had to leave the idiot category open)

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There has been uncovered massive amount of evidence that the Jesus character is based upon much older myths and heroes from around the globe.

No there isn't.

And nowhere in your reply do you even got close to demonstrating any significant parallel between Jesus and Dionysos.

History of aesthetics, Wladyslaw Tatarrkiewicz

Pro-tip: for questions of history, it's best not to base yourself on an aestheticist-philosopher who died decades ago.

For such a short document, it is full of information and references. Causes one to puzzle over the references to "Gospel Fictions" in the official documents of the church. I hear, repeatedly, that a large part of the seminary is learning how to give apologetics for the discrepancies and denial of the scriptures and traditions. 

What was that whole "walking on water" thing? This is a "miracle" that Jesus did. Why not have him floating in the air? Wouldn't that have been more impressive? The more I look at it today the so called "miracles" were just cheap parlor tricks. Most of them had no rhyme or reason.

Then the man curses a fig tree because it won't bear him fruit out of season. Oh, come on!

What was that whole "walking on water" thing? This is a "miracle" that Jesus did. Why not have him floating in the air? Wouldn't that have been more impressive? The more I look at it today the so called "miracles" were just cheap parlor tricks. Most of them had no rhyme or reason.

Hey Michael,

Actually it does have a reason and it's a very straightforward one, if you look at Jesus in a context of Judaism. Here's some lines from 2 Kings 6:

They went to the Jordan and began to cut down trees. As one of them was cutting down a tree, the iron axhead fell into the water. “Oh no, my lord!” he cried out. “It was borrowed!”

The man of God [Elisha] asked, “Where did it fall?” When he showed him the place, Elisha cut a stick and threw it there, and made the iron float.

Throughout the gospels, several of Jesus' miracles are reflections of the Old Testament prophets such as Elisha, and Jesus is depicted as "one-upping" them in several ways. Elisha makes an axhead float on water? Well Jesus can make himself float on water!

It's kind of funny to see some in this thread look for parallels between Jesus and Egyptian or Norse mythology, when the actual parallels are to be found in Judaism and are staring us right in the face.

Also, while we may miss the parallel with Elisha because of not knowing the texts, first-Century jews certainly would not. It's actually unclear to what extent they would have literally believed in the miracle, versus seeing it as allegorical and seeing the point behind it.

If it was allegorical it would prove nothing supernatural in any way. Matt VBD, your answers are something like I would expect if I was still in church. I'm beginning to think that's where they come from.

If it was allegorical it would prove nothing supernatural in any way.

Errr yeah, that was my point. Check the last paragraph.

Just because I'm showing you the background behind what's in the gospels and why they contain the stories that they do, doesn't mean I actually believe in miracles, you know.

Matt VBD, your answers are something like I would expect if I was still in church. I'm beginning to think that's where they come from.

They're actually pretty basic analysis that you can find in any (secular) analysis of the gospels.

Why exactly would you accuse me to peddle Sunday school talk, just because I'm showing a link between the Old and New Testament? Anyone can do that.

Maybe I should be going "har har har Jesus story is liek soo stoopid": that seems to be what is expected in this thread.

Let me think a minute. Making parallels with Jesus and Egyptian or Norse mythology is "staring us right in the face". 

If I hear a mythological story from the far distant past, and then I hear a story about Jesus doing the same thing or better, how do either story gain credibility for me? A story retold is a story retold and there is no mystery to either one. They both exist as "Gospel Fictions". 

Thank you, Joan. That was well said.

If I hear a mythological story from the far distant past, and then I hear a story about Jesus doing the same thing or better, how do either story gain credibility for me? A story retold is a story retold and there is no mystery to either one.

Yeah, OK. No-one here is arguing for the existence of miracles, least of all me.

But some here are making the concrete claim "The gospels are based on stories about Horus and Osiris". I'm saying that's false. I'm not sure what credibility has to do with that: it's a historical claim that's either true or false.

Then when the same stories as in the gospels appear to have happened at an earlier time that would appear to make the gospels false. If I'm wrong we can always claim that the devil did it just to throw you off.

Then when the same stories as in the gospels appear to have happened at an earlier time that would appear to make the gospels false.

Yes. Or at least when the parallels are obvious enough to rule out coincidence.

Unfortunately the best source for these parallels so far, is a New Age hippie who believes in Atlantis and space pygmees and doesn't have any actual reference backing her up. Can you do better? Because that's how you actually prove this claim, not by stomping your feet and repeating obvious statements.

You seem to think I'm defending some New Age hippie. Why so? There are many stories older that the bible stories that seem to come from similar sources. Would you call this coincidence? I think your "coincidence" would appear to make the bible false. Now you think I'm stomping my feet repeating obvious statements. If they are that obvious why would you think the bible was valid?

Maybe god has no imagination. He has to borrow things.

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