Apparently you can't do polls on here.... but

Do any of you think that Jesus actually existed? What do category do you fall into?

A. Believed he existed, claims are false

B. Believed he existed, claims are exaggerated

C. Don't believe he existed

D. Believe he existed, claims are true (sorry had to leave the idiot category open)

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And once again (how many times does it take?), there are FOUR reasons to presume this.

There was only ONE supposed messiah named "Christus" who:

a. was executed by Pontius Pilatus
b. had followers called "Christians/Chrestians"
c. had followers accused by Nero of starting the fires in Rome
d. had followers who were then "exquisitely tortured" as a result of such accusations

Show me ONE other who likewise fits the bill on all of these specific and chronologically listed events as Tacitus declares for this "Christus" and his followers and I shall happily concede your point.
Still not evidence that the perston actually existed.

You didn't answer about whether you believe Tacitus on Hercules .
... they say that Hercules, too, once visited them; and when going into battle, they sang of him first of all heroes. They have also those songs of theirs, by the recital of this barditus[6] as they call it, they rouse their courage, while from the note they augur the result of the approaching conflict. For, as their line shouts, they inspire or feel alarm.


Apparently he should. Weird.

That, or Tacitus is recording actually what people tell him. Perhaps he recorded myth along with truth. If so, it makes the Christus comment completely worthless, I would think.
Why is it so many can't actually read logically? Tacitus statement regarding what "they said" had nothing to do with Christus and everything to do with Hercules. It was to Hercules that he related what others believed... not Christus. Come on, people... READ his actual words and stop either taking them out of context or... as here... attempting to mix the context of one passage with a completely unrelated one!
Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians [or Chrestians; see below] by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea...

I don't see how we can assume this show Tacitus knew Jesus existed. Honestly, that's not my question. Could you link me to the source that shows Tacitus didn't buy into the Heracles stuff? I haven't found such info yet, but if you have links I'd appreciate it.
"It was to Hercules that he related what others believed... not Christus. "

Ah, "The Jesus Exemption": It's different, because it's Jesus.

/rolls eyes.
Of course it's evidence that Jesus existed, Mykeru. What else could it possibly be? Tacitus, an anti-Christian, Roman Senator and historian from the 1st Century is the source. What else could this be but valid evidence?

As for Tacitus on Hercules remarks... yes, I commented at length on this. Apparently, you didn't bother to read my remarks to their conclusion. I fully showed you that Tacitus did not believe in Hercules... that the Germans did... and that he was telling what "they said" and not what he believed. Go back and actually read my remarks, okay?
Here's my confusion...the quote from Tacitus about "Christus" looks like he's just talking about what the Christians believed too. Why would you say he definitely believed in one of them but not the other? Are there other references that can clear this up?

Thanks.

Oh, and I've asked a couple of times about the Paul matter. Are you getting Paul's history from the Bible?
Steve,

I can't be expected to keep re-quoting and re-quoting what I have stated over and over again. Page 39 here provides the entire Tacitus' quote on Hercules in which he repeatedly states that everything he is reporting is what "they said" (referring to the tales of the Germans) and which he concludes most tellingly as follows:

"These statements (re: the Germans beliefs about Hercules) I have no intention of sustaining by proofs, or of refuting; every one may believe or disbelieve them as he feels inclined. "

http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/tac/g01000.htm


As anyone reading this can plainly see, unlike Tacitus' no-nonsense declaration regarding "Christus" having been executed by one of Roman's own governors, Pilate (which is the evidence you have repeatedly asked for), here he is retelling what the Germans say and believe. He is not recounting what "they say" as factual, but only accurately recounting what was told by them as their beliefs... hence the tactful disclaimer at the end.

As re: Paul... you asked previously about Paul, and I replied. Now you are asking again and I can't recall to what you refer specifically. If you are going to ask that I have to restate what I already told you yesterday, you'll have to restate what it was you asked as I cannot remember.
Thanks for the link. No need to preach to me, I'm just trying to get info.
Oh, and its Stephan. Not Steve. Can't stand "Steve."

No offense to the Steves out there.
"Of course it's evidence that Jesus existed, Mykeru. What else could it possibly be? Tacitus, an anti-Christian, Roman Senator and historian from the 1st Century is the source. What else could this be but valid evidence?"

Hearsay.

"and that he was telling what "they said" and not what he believed. "

Double standard.

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