Just another “fundi” thought, perhaps both believers and non believers are right, they are just right in their different ways.

God does exist, he exists courtesy of the billions of people who believe in him, they might use different names for him and attribute him different powers, and as each sees him in a different way then they can't all be right about his makeup, in fact if only one can be right while everyone else is wrong.

But to all of them he is GOD. He is as real as "LOVE" "HATE" "FEAR" "AFFECTION" "SORROW" and other such "REAL" things that cannot be empirically proven because they exist only in the thoughts and feelings of the individual human being, but are real and exist nevertheless.

The cliché "God is love" may be more right than it first seems. Who here will say Love does not exist, or even sorrow, yet they cannot be tasted seen felt or otherwise empirically proven. However, for those who have experienced them, they are very very real. And observing the effects on the lover or the grief stricken is no proof as similar effects can be observed in the Theist relationship with their God.

Within the “existence” debate it really does not matter if the God in question is a physical being of some sort or only exists in the mind of men, he still exists equally well in either case, the believer experiences God just as he experiences love, so to the believer God does exist and in that form will only cease to exist when the last man stops experiencing him. And lets not have the old comparison arguments about unicorns, spaghetti monsters etc, they are not "experienced" in the same way God, love, hate sorrow is experienced.

At the same time to the unbeliever God does not exist, but just what God do they not believe in, usually it's the supernatural being that creates worlds, man, etc, and they are quite right, such a being is totally illogical and cannot and does not exist. But that is much to narrow a viewpoint, the "God" in question is a much broader and elusive thing than that. I have no doubt that despite the impossibility of the existence of such a supreme being someone can experience God just as someone can experience love, or sorrow while others may never experience either. And simply because it is not experienced by everyone does not make Love or God anymore unreal, just more debatable.

I know the old arguments will continue about the composition of any given God, in fact it would be strange were it not to continue. However, it will never be resolved as it’s impossible for the believer or non believer to prove something that does not exist. But the actual existence of God, certainly as a concept that affects many people cannot be denied, no more than the existence of Love or Hate. The very fact that we discuss God, both believer and non believer causes him to exist in the first place. So if we accept that a believer can truly "experience" God then it’s not the actual existence or non existence of a God we are debating, as clearly something has affected the believer. It’s the nature of the cause of that effect wherein lies the real debate.

So in the forum of debate there is no such thing as a believer or non believer, we are ALL believers, we just believe differently about the same concept. Perhaps a closer study of Objectum sexuality would cast more light on the subject, or perhaps we are all mentally ill, some to a greater degree than others.

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By who's definition? The Rosenhan experiment.... The study concluded, "It is clear that we cannot distinguish the sane from the insane in psychiatric hospitals" And if under lab conditions that is the conclusion then what hope is there for the rest of this "sane" world, a world killing itself from greed, lust, illusion, hate, over indulgence, over population, and downright stupidity, if that's sane then I would hate to see insane. Its just shades of gray again, at least the darker gray can be given a pill and they become less of a danger to the world in general.
Rosenhan was not virtual, he was real enough, I think.

Still I'm sure you know better than Professor Rosenhan Stanford University Department of Psychology in these matters.

I will send some virtual flowers.
It was nothing
As God does not exist he cannot make anyone do anything. Its the herd instinct, the common bond or even the mob mentality that "makes" people say prayers etc. There is a proven group mentality that is totally different to the individual's mentality, and that's pretty much what we see in organised religion.
God has only one meaning creator has more than one, God can only be attached to one.

Lots of ideas have a physical existence to those who experience it, hunger, war, hate, love, etc but no physical existence to those who don't.
Methinks you sit on the fence straddling atheism and theism, sir.

Cleeearly, atheism is the greener pasture :)
I only state the truth, please advise where I err.

It would seem that straying from the party line equals theist on this group, just join the herd and think like us and all will be well, sorry can't oblige. However, if you need a clear definition of my position for the last 50+ years:- When not being an atheist who KNOWS deities do not exist I am an apathist atheist.


cre·a·tor (krē-ā'tər)

1. One that creates: the creator of a new television series; a born creator of trouble.
2. Creator God. Used with the.
It's not an either/or. Per a recent survey, there ARE people here under different categories. The only reason I say you're straddling THE fence of two (multi-fauna) pastures is because I picked up on your language, and you defended yourself a LOT here.

AN is a place where people are allowed to question and be questioned; it's definitely not a herd, and the discussion boards are proof enough. I don't think most people posting on this thread were trying to be hostile, and a few aren't unless you ask for it (like a former member who re-converted to theism and went on the offensive for no reason). The most common thread among us all is that we're NOT THEIST, not that we're all atheist.
Defence follows attack and just in case you have not noticed I am under attack a LOT here. I could roll over a expose my tummy for a tickle but what the hell, who needs a quiet life.

I should fit in OK then as I am NOT THEIST, perhaps they will all come to love me.
F_ck god(s)
realm men, and women, killed jesus
there I said it
does it tickle your god crap questions?
Harrison Ford states the Earth is in trouble, now that's GOD!
Michael Moore has narrowed his whistle blowing media empire down to capitalism! (tonight on larry king actually, or tomorrow not sure)


enjoy the battles to be had; or not; 60000 votes for racist/ black and white RNC/GOP leaders/lobbyists is not enough for another civil war; bs holy wars are a waste; that's why I'm thinking lowering the signature on this planet is the only way. Go green, cut out mass-media hollywood plastic stuff around your personal space and get rid of the soot spitting vehicles; then the humans can talk again.

creepyorthodox anything enslaves by race around the world. what else you wanna debate about?
dementia through christ?
OOOOk That's one view, who am I to say it's the wrong one.
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