I am fighting on.  I've been fighting for my life for some time now.

Something most negative and consequential happened yesterday.  Life as I knew it is altered greatly.  Everything I knew is changed.  I don't know what next.  My time spent online is going to be severely limited.  I am sorry.

I've been denigrated and betrayed online, and I'm still smarting from this.

But now something entirely different has happened.  But I must keep matters concealed.

I largely agree with Daniel Mackler.  He shows the reasons people have children, how deeply entrenched the denial is.  He shows how difficult confrontations are.



But I disagree with him in that he is still preaching enlightenment.  That is, rather than striking back and claiming a place in this world, he is preaching disengagement.  He is preaching the same Self-Reliance ethic which the family system runs on.

He says that people everywhere are dissociated.  True.  He says that dissociation mimics enlightenment.  True.  But what he does not understand is that enlightenment always has been dissociation, a means of seceding.

I also disagree with him about Alice Miller.  There is more in her work, especially the early works, then he lets on.

Mackler says one thing, "Suicide is the ultimate victory for the Family System."  I think this is essential.  He really is on to something.  We should inscribe that over the doorways of public buildings.  It captures something so essential to understand, the level of malice, pure malice, pure evil.

But I now see something else, "Making disclosures when one is in jeopardy is a major victory for the Family System."  That is, as I fight on, the less that is known about me the better.  If I disclose, like say to a therapist or a Recovery Group, then the Family System gains and I lose.  Anything which is known about me is only  a way for the same judgements which the Family System makes, to be made by others. 

So what I want instead are people who are in the fight, people who are finding ways to fight back.  I want comrades.

I want to win.  But the fight has gone on so long.

The Recovery Model is bad.  Years ago I used to explain that if people can only tell their stories within the safety of a 12 step group, then they never reclaim a public identity.  They will never have anything.  They will have to be in Recovery for ever.

Maybe for alcoholics who have basically conservative values and are willing to substitute religiosity for chemical addiction, then this Recovery format will work.  They don't want vindication.  They are will to settle for becoming evangelists.

But when the issue is the Family System and the values on which it runs, no.  There has to be activism, there has to be action.  There has to be conflict with real people, conflict in the present.  In challenging the Family System, one is challenging the most dominant of values.  So there is nothing to Recover from.  Rather, the issue is learning how to strike blows.

Anyway, so I am in peril.  Great travesty occurred yesterday.  And I must conceal that I might seek comrades and perserve chances of victory.


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Well, I don't know about the bulk of this post, but that something so bad has happened to you that you dare not even speak about is very worrisome indeed. Apparently you are fighting to escape from the theists around you, who have power over you and you feel trapped, disenfranchised, powerless to be who you want to be. I know the feeling. There should be some kind of a support system for people like you, somewhere persecuted atheists can go where they can talk about what their problems are and receive help. There's not much I can do to help, unfortunately, certainly not without knowing what the problem is or even if you are asking for help, though it seems clear to me that you are. Maybe someone else here can start some kind of support program for people like you, I think that would be a very important thing atheists can do for each other. In any case, feel free to send me a message if you just need to talk and the least I can do is listen.

man. so, I guess there's going to be group-homes in the future; secular-based as in no prayers needed etc? I mean, I noticed a current tv docu on drug abuse in teenagers. the woman that ran the program/middle man to probation offc. had some guy say 'prayer' or something out of old AA book..?
damn pills! heroine. all bad all the time!


strange. like AA in a sense that fundy AA and the nonfundy relatives need a place for a while...
and then there's corporate AA. whole other ball o' wax... ugh boy..

I mean... it's equivalent to telling kids "it's not real it's, what? fake riiighht"
regards to 3d alligators etc. 3d religion/myth stories effecting people's thought processes
as if mass-media has not floored folks thought patterns enough! sheesh!

It does appear that with help from several sources, I may have beat what unfolded two days ago.

But I am still very vulnerable and there are many many things which would have to happen for this to change.  I am fighting hour by hour, and I am fighting for my life.

I must keep my affairs concealed.  Giving information, making disclosures, would only help those who have harmed me.

I have seen the face of evil.  I don't mean this in a theistic way either, but what I have seen is evil and it is the evil which underlies all evil.

Once one has seen such, one only lives in order to be able to fight back.

But I am fighting for my life and extremely vulnerable and on borrowed time.  Everything that I do is a gambit.

What I need are comrades, people already placing themselves in harms way and with scars to show for it.  People who are striking blows and inflicting harm.

Some of the battles may be very hard to win.  But I need people who are at least trying to win some of them.  So far I have found nothing!  Maybe you can see from this why I consider the Recovery Movement in such low esteem, really as a kind of a rapist.

Often it is those who have been harmed the most who are the least able to fight back.

So I must keep my affairs concealed.  Any disclosure only serves to harm me and aide those who most certainly do seek my life.

It is Mackler who says that "suicide is the ultimate victory for the Family System".  I feel that this is true.  If you look under suicides, you will find this.

In Andrew Vachss's "Down in the Zero" he deals with some unusual teenage suicides, and yes he does find some of this.  But I am convinced that with the more ordinary types of suicides this is always there.

Making disclosures may not yield the ultimate victory, but it still yields a substantial victory.  So what I need are people who are fighting back.  Only then, only to aide in their cause and my cause, can I make disclosures.

Paul Mones has fought back, defending parricide cases, and writing about them.



He shows that in such cases there is not great distance between parent and child.  Rather, the parent barely perceives the child as being separate.

With the Menendez Brothers of Los Angeles California, inheritance became an issue.  The parents had threatened to disinherit the boys in their early 20's.  They did this to try and make them tow the line.  They were bragging about this to relatives.  There seems to have been a long long pattern of other abuses too.  As I see it, the main shortcoming of the boys was simply that they were like their parents.

Disinheritance should be prohibited by law.  Anyone talking about Recovery, but not fighting for this, is part of the problem and not part of the solution.  I believe Europe is better here and I do seek information about this and about its history.

But their also should have been other outside intervention in a situation like Menendez.  There should always be some intervention.  The Family System has to be diffused, at a minimum.

Lots of people grow up poor and live poor and live very fine lives.  But when someone is denigrated and used and made a scapegoat, and they do not respond to this and prevail and restore their honor, I don't think they can ever do anything.  I am sure that this is what drives people to substance addictions and religiosity.

There are endless examples of families where there is great great animosity.  Unfortunately very little supports the child victim here.  Where there is animosity the parents should be held accountable.  They are the ones responsible for it.  But it is also all of us who are responsible for not taking action now, and for not having intervened.

Animosity is evidence that the child was used.  Calling it abuse makes it sound like it is an aberration.  It isn't.  Animosity means that the child has been used and denigrated, and that it will continue to go on until there is redress.

Giving information about my own life, when it is out of the context of fighting back, only helps the enemy.


battles abound; war is over, if you want it.

Here's a paraphrase:


This guy's kooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooookyyyyyyyy.

Thread closed due to trolls.






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