Oh man... I was wondering if someone was going to upload audio of that show. What a trainwreck! Thanks for uploading this, because I was curious how the trainwreck started. I missed the first half-hour.
For those who can't access the link, this is audio of The Infidel Guy's podcast last night where he interviewed Charlie Check'm.
Just because an organization 'quotes' legitimate scientific studies, that doesn't mean they are representing them accurately. Consider this complaint from Utah's Professor Lisa Diamond"
"Truth Wins Out released an exclusive video interview today with University of Utah professor, Dr. Lisa Diamond, who said that the National Association of Research & Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH) grossly and deliberately distorted her research on sexual orientation. Dr. Diamond’s assertion comes one week before NARTH’s annual conference in Denver, which will take place Nov. 7-9.
“Dr. Nicolosi, you know exactly what you are doing,” said Diamond in the video, addressing NARTH’s co-founder Dr. Joseph Nicolosi. “This is a willful misuse and distortion of my research. Not an academic disagreement. Not a slight shading of the truth. It’s willful distortion. And, it’s illegitimate and it’s irresponsible and you know that. And you should stop.”
“We are fighting back against the gross distortions of our lives by anti-gay organizations who manipulate science for political gain,” said Wayne Besen, Executive Director of Truth Wins Out. “These organizations claim to be moral, but often twist scientific research in the most shameless and dishonest ways imaginable. We are committed to exposing these lies and ensuring that science is accurately and honestly presented.”
Lisa M. Diamond, Ph.D., is an Associate Professor of Psychology and Gender Studies in the Department of Psychology at the University of Utah. She has won a number of awards for her work. In 2000, Dr. Diamond published a study, “Sexual identity, attractions, and behavior among young sexual minority women over a 2 year period.” This study was distorted by NARTH. The anti-gay organization falsely claimed that Dr. Diamond’s work shows that sexual orientation is “amenable to change.”
Among many others, NARTH also distorted a 2001 study by psychologist Robert Spitzer.
Spitzer went on record declaring that he was “appalled” at how his work was being simplified and misrepresented by NARTH.
NARTH also uses studies which have been discredited by the scientific community for being flawed (but never mentions this).
NARTH also tries to gain credibility for its sources saying they were published in the official sounding "Journal of Human Sexuality". What they omit to mention is that the "Journal of Human Sexuality" is a non-peer reviewed publication published by .... you guessed it ... NARTH.
Yep, and just because someone 'quotes "legitimate scientific studies"' doesn't even mean that they are in fact quoting legitimate studies at all.
You can always pick these people apart source by source and reduce them to a quivering mass of ignorant prejudice and bias.
You will go through the same process if you ever debate an "anti-vaccination-ist" or "911 Truth-er" or a "Birther" or who knows what else.
It's a shame that some of these people have the potential to cause so much harm; othewise they'd just be fun to mess with.
Exactly, but Charlie is too full of prejudice to see that. He only accepts the 'studies' that say what he wants them to say. He doesn't want to know that the data has been misrepresented, he doesn't bother to check if the study is legitimate, and he doesn't even care if the interpretation of the data comes from a Christian propagandist organisation.
The Infidel Guy show was a study in how prejudice and bigotry closes down someone's mind to reason and factual information. What's ridiculous is that Charlie thinks he won that debate - when everyone else thinks he just made an absolute fool of himself.
It's not too late, Charlie - you can still redeem yourself. Decide that instead of arguing you want to learn - that you want to actually make intelligent choices based on evidence, not prejudice. You could earn the respect of many intelligent, educated people if you did that. At the moment, your reputation and credibility are somewhere around the level of Fred Phelps'.
"I will undertake, if anybody will pay for the job, to prove that the Hidden God of all the secret societies in European history was actually Bugs Bunny." -- Robert Anton Wilson
Manipulation of reality to promote a particular agenda is as old as prostitution and recreational drug use. It's call propaganda. NARTH is pure astroturf, dressed up with fancy titles and impressive (bogus) honorifics and post-nominals. It's like any other "think tank" that's funded secretly (because it would embarrass those doing the funding) and has a pre-determined "conclusion" prior to doing any actual "research".
As an interesting side note:
I clicked into NARTH's "find a therapist" page and they don't provide any direct references.
What kind of "therapist" would counsel someone against homosexuality?
Could they actually be competently credentialled?
P.S. There have got to be a few adventurous and savvy "Nexers" who could beguile their way into this network and answer this question for us ...
I'm actually quite worried that all of this negative talk about Charlie is going to drive him deeper into the closet. It's dangerous. Down-low sex is often unsafe, and will put him at increased risk for HIV.
I think we need to be understanding of his repressed man-love attractions. His obsessions with same-gender love and outward repeat affirmations of his supposed heterosexuality are cries for help.
Let's not make him into the next gay atheist rapper Ted Haggard. If we show kindness and understanding, will come to accept his inner sensitive side and, like Alice through the looking glass, come out of the other side as the first atheist gay rapper.