I have recently become aware of two camps of thought with regard to global warming/climate change, niether one relating to religion vs science. On one side is the internationally recognized theory of rapid devastating change and on the other a token uncertainty of the actual changes occuring in terms of what effects we may be facing and how quickly they will emerge.
As a "regular sort" I don't really know a lot of the science involved with our changing conditions and so I guess that puts me in between the two in this arguement. They both have very valid points and the answer to this riddle is important- so what do you all think?
Right back at you sir...
JohnD. You just can't stop can you? It's like you have a disease. A disease that compels you to try to change my mind. You will just have to live with me being here... and not sharing your opinion
You have reiterated your same old tired denial pseudo-2-sidedness much more frequently than I. So if I am diseased then that would make you, by your own standards... terminal... my condolences to your wife :)
Well because people have gone out and looked at evidence from ice cores and the way that animals have migrated over millions of years and having looked at those things and others you can say looking at the evidence the Earth was covered in a sheet of ice a mile thick a billion years ago and the only reason that it is not still like that is the volcanos pumping out gas into tha atmosphere.
I problem I see with climatechangyologistograpologistomaniacs is that they look at evidence from the past 50 years and run round telling everyone the sky is falling but they will not look at anything which suggests its always been happening.
Luckily over the past 6 months or so there have been more scientists willing to stand up and say its all bollocks.
Sorry, Jez, but that's total crap. Climate scientists are well aware of the geologic record back billions of years, as well as the effects of volcanoes and ice ages. None of those things has any bearing on what we are currently experiencing, which you'd admit if you were interested in the actual science rather than your faith-based beliefs.
The problem here is that evidence is only given for the part that everybody can agree with. Yes, the planet is getting warmer. Ok. But it DOES that. And then it gets cooler. And then warmer again, and so on.
When it came to the part about CO2 and green house gases being the cause all it said was 'scientists think...' with no names or evidence being given. This is about the same thing as when FOX news gets away with saying whatever they want by adding the words 'Some people say...' at the beginning of it and then never citing a reference of evidence. Thats not news, and this isn't science... it is opinion.
'Some people say that Obama is the antichrist and is a secret gay-jew-muslim-atheist-communist-black panther.'
Erik, you need to educate yourself on this. There are thousands of peer-reviewed papers supporting the reality of anthropogenic global warming, with tens of thousands of scientists' names attached in black and white. This is not merely a matter of opinion or guesswork. And it's really, really, really, not hard to find this stuff if you just look. I went to nature.com, the web site for the prestigious journal Nature, which publishes peer-reviewed papers, and did a site search for "anthropogenic climate change" and turned up 681 articles, with names of scientists proudly attached. Here's a link for the search to save you some typing, but feel free to not trust me.
You could do the same think for the journal Science, which also publishes peer-reviewed papers. Gee, that search returned over 100,000 hits. My goodness, the science mafia certainly isn't hiding their research very well, are they? Who knows what kind of panic could be sparked if this gets out?
Yes, both sites require you to pay to see the full articles, but you can see the article abstracts for free. No mystery, no man behind the curtain, just science working the way it has for a couple hundred years. And Science and Nature are not just some blog sites set up by a handful of climate scientists who like to quote each other. When Faux News says "some people say..." they are either making shit up or quoting one of their own pundits or a batshit Republican that they want to hire as a pundit. When people talk about the real science behind AGW, it's tricky to point out just one source because their are thousands. It's an embarrassment of riches.
I appreciate the link. This is exactly what I have been asking for and nobody else seems willing to reference or link. I'm not some paranoid weirdo saying that its a huge conspiracy, simply a guy pointing out that we should be seeing actual evidence and citations rather than only hearing assurances and opinions.
I apologize for the sarcasm in my previous post. Well, half-apologize, anyway. It's very frustrating that people can't find these citations. They're not really hidden, though it's fair to say that they are rarely front and center in the debate. Again, I think that's because it's such an enormous stack of research that most journalists and bloggers see little choice but to boil it down to a summary. "Well, the library is over there, but here's the short version."
You're right - mainstream media tends to be sparse at best on the details. Most people are frightened away as soon as you start printing equations and chemistry charts. What we get is something easy to digest, but also easy to misread and manipulate.
Over on the group "Atheists who love science," someone started an interesting thread about the public perception of science due to this process of making it so easy to digest. Somewhere around the third page the OP has a copy of the paper he's just written on the subject. Said it extremely well and illustrates just how easy it is for the public to be led by the nose by a media more interested in selling ad space than the facts.
Is there a local effect? I understand that Somalia has been uncomfortably warm for quite some time. Are the pirates there simply a sensible reaction to that? Has the weather on the Horn of Africa cooled substantially? I see that the chart only contains pirate data up to the year 2000. With the recent Somali piracy, there are far more than 17 pirates worldwide now, so we should be seeing some beneficial effect. Perhaps this is why the last ten years have leveled off a bit, instead of being due to El Nino variations.