The whole purpose of the recent budget negotiations between Paul Ryan and Patty Murray was to find a compromise that would avoid future government shutdowns and a default on US debt obligations. That was the basis on which Ryan sold it to his fellow Republicans in the House when he said that the deal "helps produce more certainty because it stops a potential government shutdown in January and it stops a potential government shutdown in October." Of course the deal itself creates additional deficit and will require a compensating rise in the debt ceiling. It has not yet passed the Senate and many Republicans there are opposed.
That was a few days ago and this morning Ryan reversed course on Fox in an interview in which he indicated that Republicans will soon be meeting to decide what it is they want in return for raising the debt ceiling the next time it becomes necessary—sometime after February 7th next year.
If the GOP insists on concessions in return for raising the debt ceiling, the President and his party have only two choices; 1) give in to whatever they ask for and relinquish all hope of governing for the next three years or 2) hold the line and let the government shutdown and the country default on its obligations.
These tactics on the part of the GOP are an attempt to reverse the results of the 2012 election and nullify the presidency of Obama.
more and more of their members are convinced that raising the debt ceiling isn't necessary. this is what happens when unserious ignorant people can run for congress on the mantra of "gubmint is bad, mmmkay".
one correction though - not raising the debt ceiling would not shut down the government. it would roil the world financial markets, cause a once in a century depression, and make the us gov't find $600 billion in savings out of a $1 trillion budget IMMEDIATELY.
worse yet, there's literally no putting that genie back in the bottle. once we lose our full faith and credit we lose our standing as the defacto currency around the world. the ramifications would be difficult to fathom, but the damage would be irepairable.
let's hope they won't be so stupid. but who knows...
one correction though - not raising the debt ceiling would not shut down the government.
Not immediately because the government could continue to operate many functions with incoming tax receipts, but rather quickly obligations would exceed receipts and the government would be unable to meet them all. Assuming that debt obligations get priority, the government could not entirely fund others, leading to a gradual shutdown of the related functions. How long workers would continue to perform their duties without paychecks is a serious question. Social Security obligations are spread throughout the month, but they are large.
I've already heard republicans stating on the national news, they don't like the deal, even though they admit they have yet to see it. How much longer can this go on. It's getting crazier every day.
What Republicans are seeking in budget negotiations is reduction of social programs like Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security on the grounds that this is the only way to achieve deficit reduction without revenue increases. This ignores the fact that taxes are historically low and the deficit is shrinking rapidly as the economy picks up and tax receipts increase.
I do not believe they are primarily or even sustantially concerned with deficit reduction, but rather with reducing and/or eliminating social programs they have always disliked.
yup. 100% correct.
the worst part is how truly deceptive it is. if debt/deficits is your biggest concern, shouldn't you be open to any policy which addresses this directly? raising revenue is AN option, but they simply won't go there. one could easily argue that it's the best way to reduce debt/deficit. just look how much deficit we've whacked this year alone after the first tax increase in over 2 decades (just over $1 trillion down to $650 billion).
the only logical conclusion is just as you said - they don't care about debt/deficit. it's all a stealth way to wind down the social safety net which they've never accepted.
I agree fully, Dr. Clark. They started coming around when they realized that shutting it all down would affect Republican businesses also, but that didn't last very long. Boehner seems to be getting in line now, but the Tea Potty is idiotic and apparently stronger than we think. I once saw in a newspaper where a female member of that group claimed she didn't like all the giveaways because "jesus wouldn't like it." I Imagine she has a totally different bible.
Recently a stenographer blurted out "he will not be mocked" in a meeting about the debt ceiling. My thoughts went into asking what god has to do with American debt? It all has no answer that would make any sense.
Just last week I ran onto a woman who strongly believes that debt in Bush years was in the billions, but it is Obama who has put it in the trillions. How could anyone believe this? It's absurd.
Since everyone stated from the beginning that they were not going to work with Obama, (you can call their reasoning whatever you want to call it) my best guess is that they want to muck everything up so badly that after Obama you would vote for anybody!
That doesn't stop me from asking why I should believe them now when you never could believe them before? Modern politics is simply "cry baby" ego and a lot of these people should pull their pants back up and go back home. We should hope they stay there.
BTW, in case you have seniors anywhere wondering just what they have to do with ACA (Obamacare) and how they have to enroll, and whether this will end up costing them over $400 a month with our "new government health system" - let me put that to rest! YOU DO NOTHING. The government is NOT going into the healthcare business and Medicare as it is now remains until 2029. Medicare is totally exempt from the ACA. Go to Medicare.gov and look it up. (VA is a similar thing but is yet another exempt separate system.)
I have both VA and Medicare and I get tired of old people being scared and asking about this, and I'm tired of the phone scams about it. DO NOT GIVE OUT YOUR INFORMATION. If you get a phone call, it is a scam. Then I ask my insurance man to explain this to the seniors and he says "well, we just don't know yet." I want to pull my hair out, start screaming, and ask if he can use a computer or go to a government web site? Jesus Christ, some people are a lot of help!
The GOP narrative has crystalized into a myth that it is social programs giving money to the undeserving that causes budget deficits and risks the future vitality of our economy. One could just as easily make a case that it is military expenditures that are causing the trouble.
One case that cannot be made is that high taxes are sapping the economy—taxes are at historic lows. The GOP has so much invested in this narrative myth that nothing will shake it in the minds of their base. It is reinforced at every turn and most voters lack the ability to see through the rhetoric.
"Undeserving!" Those are the people who purchase bread and milk, gasoline and oil, soap and water. The undeserving purchase health care or go without. They clean offices and pick up trash, teach school and teach our coming generation how to be patriotic, salute the flag, and follow directions. The undeserving take care of the young, old, sick, disabled. They heal from wounds caused by bombs and bullets and warring while being undeserving of assistance. The undeserving remain silent in face of ridicule, ignorance, dominionism, fraud, corruption.
The "undeserving" will remain victims as long as they follow directions of the "deserving."
Senator McConnell, the Senate Minority Leader, has indicated that there will be another debt ceiling fight in the first quarter of 2014. He will not vote for the current budget compromise, but it will necessitate an increase in the debt ceiling since it creates additional deficit.
There is no use in passing this bill only to have it all undone by a refusal to raise the ceiling in February or March. The tactic may make political sense if a vast portion of the American public can be conned into enthusiasm for it, but it makes no logical sense.
That is the frustrating part of all this debt ceiling, don't tax the owners of capital, austerity mess. Working class people will never be able to carry the full load of paying for wars, maintaining and perpetuating the infrastructure of highways, buildings, and power supplies needed for our nation.
Why the voting public does not see that is beyond me; especially the Tea Party class of people. They want the services, don't want the rich to pay taxes because "it is the rich that make jobs" nonsense, and then claim that austerity is the way out of our financial problems. Stupid!
The GOP is now bent on obstruction. They have no positive program for moving things forward. They are no longer to be trusted with power. Their arrogance is beyond amazing.
If your definition of obstructionism is not doing everything Obama wants without question then you are right.