I know we're all different thinkers, but I'm just curious if there is a consensus view among atheists regarding firearms?

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You're right that poverty and the drug war are major contributors, but the point I'm making is that if people keep on stealing guns, just make it so that there aren't any guns to steal. As I've said elsewhere on this thread, Prohibition and the drug war has failed mostly because those things are easy to produce and conceal. Guns aren't something you can just build from scratch in your basement. There are plenty of countries that have banned guns -consistently- and when they do, guns mostly disappear. Does violence in general go down? No, but the violence isn't as bad. Just pointing this out.
Never gonna happen. You would have to go door to door and ask for peoples guns, and, since it's unconstitional to search and seize without probably cause, you could only get the registered ones, not the unregistered ones which are still legal.

Plus you have yet to address what to do about the culture? The people who have grown up in the US gun culture will find any way possible to get a hold of a gun.
Can't forget about the disturbing ease with which a gun can be made.

Nothing fancy, just a tube with a firing pin at end will do.
Well, you can say that - but if it's impossible to get rid of guns, then how did Britain do it?

I just want some real data here, not conjecture and armchair theorizing. Fact: Britain has strong, consistent gun laws and has one of the lowest gun crime rates in the world as a result (and this despite having a mostly urban population). If you can't get rid of guns, then why doesn't Britain have any? If gun control laws can't stop people from shooting each other, then why doesn't Britain have more gun crime? Where's the mass influx of South American guns into Britain?

I'm just trying to be clear here - I'm not suggesting something that's been tried and failed, or that has never been tried at all. It has been tried, and it worked. That's the hard evidence I have before me, and rhetoric isn't going to change my mind. Do you have any data at all to back up what you're saying?

You're right, it's not legal to search someone's house without a warrant, but so what? As soon as there's evidence of a gun, it gets taken away. Eventually, all of them are (or rather, the vast majority).

As for the culture, well, cultures change. I don't see what's especially worth saying about that.
You also have to consider countries that have mandatory gun ownership like Switzerland. You don't have a choice. Every house must have a military issue assault rifle in the home. I'm not talking hand guns, or shotguns, or hunting rifles. I mean a gun that they send people to war with.

Every house must have one. In case the Germans invade or something.

And yet the Swiss violent crime rate is about half as high as in the UK.

There are the French with a fairly high rate of guns per capita with a slightly higher violent crime rate than the UK.

There are a lot of numbers that go back and forth and sum up the essential truth that gun ownership does not correlate with violent crime.

Violent crime isn't as bad?  I doubt it.  


The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S. 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country...

I dunno. The Daily Mail isn't exactly renowned for its even handed reporting.

The first thing that jumps out at me is UK #1 in violent crime while simultaneously 4th in burglarly, 5th in robbery, and 13th in murder. Where are the rest of these violent crimes coming from?

The UK is also 8th in assaults and 13th in rape. Where are the rest of these violent crimes coming from?

Fair enough, I wasn't sure about the source on that one.  I still don't buy the argument that if you remove guns, violent crime goes down. 

You're absolutely right on that. There isn't even a correlation between gun ownership and crime.


No matter how intuitively it may favor one side or the other, the evidence just doesn't play out that way.

"Guns are the dumb persons answer to violence. " This is a terrible thing to say. if "Rational, intelligent people understand that violence begets violence." is really true, then, consider my gun protection for the idiots who don't think things through rationally. "Thinking, logic, ethics, empathy, and reason are the only ways to stop the cycle of violence.
" I beg to differ... My shotgun stops a violent criminal pretty quick, hell it even works well to prevent crimes. If somoeone bangs on my door at 3am unexpectedly and befor eI open teh door they hear that unmistakenable "chik chi" that my pump action makes when i rack a round into the chamber, chances are when i open the door to ask who it is, they are already gone.
I had a patron think I carried a knife simply by the way I handled myself against ornery patrons.

Having finally gotten around to watch Walking Dead, I will consider "Zombie Plague" as an acceptable argument in favor of gun ownership.


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