I know we're all different thinkers, but I'm just curious if there is a consensus view among atheists regarding firearms?

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You present a false choice.  There are two other situations that could arise.  First, the store owner successfully defends his property and injures, kills, or scares off the robber.  The other one is the person that did not escalate gets shot anyways.  Both are plausible outcomes to that situation.  Thinking that someone willing to rob you at gunpoint isn't willing to just shoot you for the hell of it is quite naive.  My choice is to give the shop owner the ability to choose how he wants to protect himself and his property.  If he wants to have a gun fine, if not fine, it is his choice, and he lives with the consequences of his choice.

Well, I don't really think about that.  Maybe I have a higher death wish than most people.  Really to me it's just being more safe than sorry, and my overall distrust of humans.  I may live in a decent neighborhood, but you don't have to go far at all before you're in some nasty areas.  Just a couple of miles in certain directions.  I've lived in some of those areas too.  It's a nice wake up call when people are shooting each other in your back yard, and I do mean that literally.


Yeah, if the day ever comes when someone does try to rob me or something, I may get killed.  It could happen to any of us.  But "Bob"dammit, I'm at least going to take the cocksucker down with me in the process.

[...] Really to me it's just being more safe than sorry [...]

How is being dead '"more safe"? I'm sorry I'm just not seeing the logic here :(

If I could understand that, I think I might better understand the pro-gun faction...

For one, you're assuming that the robber will be a quicker and better shot than I am.  He even may have only a knife.  You can't guarantee who survives in a given situation.  Contrary to your example, the robber doesn't always win.  I'm willing to take that chance then to just lay down and submit.
You can use that excuse for any type of self defense.
It's not an excuse, it's justifiable self defense, we all have a right to.
Heh, he may only have a knife? I don't like those odds in close combat. Nor would I particularly enjoy being a bystander when you panic fire with your pistol while under duress.
Panic fire?  Sure, if you don't know what the hell you're doing.  But unfortunately there are probably a lot of people out there who don't receive proper training.  Believe it or not, gun ownership has responsibilities.  Most people are just too lazy or stupid to do it.  That's where the panic shots come from.  I do think that it should be mandatory to take firearm training to get a permit.  It could be in some states, but not here.

Personally, any issues I have with gun use are not about feeing uneasy. My question is regarding the statistically demonstrated lack of effectiveness (other than anecdotal stories) of escalating a violent situation with knives and firearms. It has published time and time again, studies of robberies of taxi driver and convenience stores and home invasions, that defending oneself with a firearm increases one's chance of death.


I'm not questioning the law here, nor the constitution, only what in other subjects of debates on this website, we require "evidence" for, not anecdote.

You make a good point... my vow to resist rape to the death, preferably of the other before me, is quite possibly entwined with the fact that I have no dependants. If I had dependants, remaining alive would have additional value.
I think it would be hard to pull actual data from that, as I bet there are a lot of unreported incidents of people defending themselves with firearms that go unreported.  You have any links to this data?

If you hunt around, you'll find there have been a few studies, through the years, looking at  taxi drivers, convenience store owners and household rate of death associated to weapons being used to self defend or not... Of course one can always find contradictory evidence, even religious people present their own stats... But I think the point is, if you pay attention to whom does the studies, you get a pretty good idea of the study's bias.


I'm not against carrying arms and ownership, per se. But to say it's makes one feel safer, if in fact it increases the lethality of many situations, ... well... I just prefer honest discourse. What a couple of you are saying is that though guns may not actually 'really' make you safer, defending yourself to the death gives you a better feeling about yourself, which is really a very different human thought process. Personally, my death is only worth it if it's accompanied by the guilty party's death. The risk therefore lies in dying uselessly. Honour and pride do not exist once you're dead, and if the guilty party stays free, then the death is really a waste.


Conversely, I'm pretty comfortable with the notion that less violent self defence makes it a whole lot easier on criminals. My stance, comparatively with rape, is that you must make it NOT worthwhile for the perp, no matter the outcome. A criminal with a killing history is not the same human as without the killing history.


Was that confusing? sorry :)



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