this is fairly significant folks.  as a constituency we are being ignored. most of us want some pretty basic things but politicians don't cater to us.  by some accounts non-believers carried the day for Obama this past November.  

what would most of us want?  here are my most basic requests:

1.  federal ban on creationism

2.  prayer and religious ornaments banned from public grounds

3.  legal abortion (i know it's legal, but it needs to be way more legal in some states)

4.  legal weed (i know it's not universal but i have a feeling it's close)

5.  end of abstinence only sex ed

6.  pentacostals all put in loony bins

ok, i can compromise on #6.  

feel free to add what i missed.  

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SB, I hope you are able to see that a six-month requirement you don't think is excessive might be very excessive to someone else.

Also, please explain your metaphor, the "where-with-all to do it without a Dr's Rx".


Sorry, that may be a colloquialism from my origins.  I mean there are ways that people can commit suicide without having a doctor involved.  The organization "Final Exit" is a resource.  It's used be "The hemlock society".

I am a proponent of individual patient autonomy.  That includes making decisions about end of life.  However, the devil is in the details.  That's why a separate discussion might be better.

I suggested to Spud that this be a separate topic so people who are interested in it can access it.  Just a suggestion.

Sentient, It appears that we disagree on this subject.  I'm of the opinion that a person should have the right to check-out whenever they want, without any interference.

It appears there has to be some interference if a person wants the help of others, to make sure the person is not pressured into dying, but even then, I think Oregon's requirements are way too much, and other states.... forget it!

That's why, if my suffering becomes greater than the joy I have in living, with no reasonable expectations of relief, I have definite pain-free checking-out plans A, B, and C.  None of which involves anyone else.

Spud, good for you Plan A, B, and C if someone isn't left with a mess to clean up.

Yes Joan.  Don't want to leave a mess for someone to clean-up if I can help it.


No problem for me if we disagree.  Maybe I will learn something.

I do hope you don't plan to institute your plan any time soon. My world is better because you are here.   I imagine that is true for others.

This might be a better topic for a new thread.   I imagine it would have a lot of comments and discussion.   If you started a new thread, people would know to read it and comment if interested.

You might check out "" if you have not already.

Daniel, I agree, "I do hope you don't plan to institute your plan any time soon. My world is better because you (Spud) are here." and you, too, Daniel.

 I also like the idea of a new thread. 

Thanks Sentient and Joan.  No worries.  No time soon.  You guys, Godless in the Garden, and working in my garden have improved my outlook on life.

I'm not up for discussing this topic more at this time, but if I am in the future, I will take it to a new thread.

SB and Tom, agree with your additions whole heartedly.  i don't know how i forgot those.  

thanks Mel.  i was excited to see the news.  non-believers are a bigger voting block than african americans and no one pays us any mind.  time for us to have a seat at the table!

Sapient Sentient....

You haven't missed any point bu I would not insist on banning creationism. It has already lost several legal battles. I feel Americans are paying a lot of lip service to creationism for religious reasons but almost all of them want their children to learn evolution. Many people who supported creationism have lost elections, including Santorum.




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