: ( It is apparent that your mind's eye is colorblind to any atrocity which does not involve a human victim. You cannot seem to see what makes us so similar, and what places us on the same plane in this universe. If you could drop your genetically inherent bias toward your own species and view every creature objectively, as it is in nature, without any of your preconceived notions, you would see them as different, but equal. Until you can do that, and you may never do it, I suppose the two of us have reached a dead end, Jim. I do view consuming flesh as barbaric. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
Jim, you have to remember it took a vegan meat-is-murder propaganda splatter flick for this rocket scientist to realise that meat means animals have to die. At age 20. Seriously. Try to be understanding.
What "spiritual" connection are you talking about?
Well what would you consider what your fellow herbivore, Thomas Charles Hudson, stated? You cannot seem to see what makes us so similar, and what places us on the same plane in this universe.
Does that mean that you share your "plane in the universe" (what ever the hell that means) with the oysters I brutalised with Tabasco and lemon juice last night before devouring their succulent essences?
The two of you and your goose stepping dietary arrogance is truly astounding.
Oh, what a surprise. Generalising all meat eaters to say all and do nothing, yes, what a mature way of debating.
We're not better than animals, but they aren't better than us either.
Besides, when was the last time YOU, as a vegetarian did anything to stop the meat industry treating animals so horribly, other than your wimpy-ass "I don't eat meat and this is supposed to mean that I am better than you."?
My guess is "never" or at least, not anytime within the past decade. Correct me if I am wrong, but the only thing you are doing is simply not eating meat... Which does fuck all to help.
Being as we're a corporate consumer nation, here's what it 'does to help.' It's the same concept as anything. One person does something, it's a drop in the bucket. Many people do it, it's a big splash. Our civilization thrives on marketing. In marketing, the higher the demand, the higher they will supply to compensate so they don't run out of stock to sell. If you are guaranteed to sell up to a certain level, and trends show that, you will produce that much. But if people were to boycott, that would affect the demand for your product, and you will reduce the supply or else risk losing revenue by perishable inventory. If no one buys something, they will put less on the shelves. Less meat on the shelves = fewer animals killed, by logic.
I've been at work for the last 8 hours, and only now returned. Glad to be back in the fray.
I work at a restaurant. There is excess meat wasted into a garbage bin every single night. They've offered me some, but I'm a vegetarian. I politely refuse it. To someone like me, who is now so disciplined in my lifestyle that even the thought of ingesting flesh is repulsive, it doesn't matter what the price is. You couldn't give a vegetarian a meat meal. Lowering the price would do nothing to bring genuine vegetarians back into the market. That's ridiculous.
A cat wouldn't touch that shit. After being processed with hormones, preservatives, additives and fillers, let alone the abnormal ratios of saturated fat and sodium in fast food, I would be committing my creatures to a slow and painful death. That's if they would even eat it in the first place. I work drive-through at a Burger King because it was the first job near my home I could acquire after my father kicked me out for being an atheist. He found a webpage on my computer (which I lent him to do his taxes) which was the Richard Dawkins official site.
He debated me, then kicked me out saying that he wouldn't have any God-haters in his house, and that I could go to my atheist murderers, child-molesters, etc. if they would even have me. So, after my girlfriend and I were homeless for 2 weeks, I caved and got a drive-through job. I almost never work in the kitchen, because I mentioned I hate working with meat. But it is a job and it pays my bills. I'm currently saving money to bicycle across the country, buy an acre of land I can build a cabin on, and settle in Washington/Oregon/northern California. Haven't decided yet.
Once I own my own acre, and my own home, all build with my own hands, I will be independent enough to begin volunteering for groups I feel passionately about, and I will attempt to evolve my diet from lacto-ova vegetarianism and move closer to vegan. Unfortunately, and ironically, this is my selling my soul to the devil as a means to an end for the next 10 months. I count each day with eagerness.
@TCH: You see this is where all of you crusaders collapse into a heap of nonsense. When I say more or less the same thing you just did, stephenb begins bursting blood vessels in righteous and holy indignation. One if his many Dali-esque responses is worth quoting -
With that attitude, how do you expect to arrive at a situation where everyone can have an ethical environment around me and my surrounds.? Just imagine if everyone did that? Not going to happen other than in your hypothetical fairyland without education.
So it's really a lose-lose situation trying to debate anything with clowns that react to discussion points the way animals do to shadow or fire. Everything is an emotional kneejerk. Logic circuits are bypassed altogether. I'd love to capture MRI scans - I suspect they would be the same as teenage girls that fluctuate wildly between adoration and heartbreak chasing boy bands around the place.