I hate that I might reluctantly vote for Hillary Clinton.

This is the first time in my life that I had. Presidential candidate practically have all of the policies I want. I first voted for Obama in 08 without really looking into it. Like two years ago I was reading about NY gerrymandering and it really struck a chord with me to vote locally. Most candidates I found didn't really match my philosophy.

But then this election cycle I really delved into all of the candidates. The more I looked into Hillary the more I didn't like. She was into fracking around the world, she does her bidding to her donors and the Clinton Foundation and she armed countries who donated to it while simultaneously saying she was anti-gun.

When Bernie came along, as a progressive liberal he was a dream. I was thinking to myself that even if he gets 1% done, it'll be more than Hillary would do in 4 years. When he started to gain momentum it felt great. Even with the mass media practically lying about Bernie, it didn't kill the true momentum.

I went to the rally it was euphoric! I felt like, perhaps naively, We're finally going to take back our country! I was feeling the Bern! In the absurd primary rules in NY, you had to be registered 6 months prior, even before Bernie had his first debate. I lucked out, even though I felt more like an independent, I was a registered Democrat. I did my due diligence, nothing was fishy, even got my pin. When he lost NY, I was disappointed, but not dismayed.

I think after feeling the Bern, I built a bit of a disdain for Hillary Clinton. I don't like what she stands for and she seems to say anything to get a vote. I was a borderline BernieorBust person, but there is no way, over my dead body, that I would vote for Trump. Even if it means to reluctantly vote for Hillary.

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Mr. Pianko states, with confidence, his expert opinion:

"Hillary C. did a bad job as secretary of state."

Well, No, she did a good job as Secretary of State.  

Now, where do you go from here?

"A Hillary presidency would be a disaster."

No it wouldn't.

I expect you to back-up your empty, uninformed opinions, and if you can't, STFU.

Muslims hate atheist, christians, Jews, and all the minorities the liberals claim to care so much about. Do you want millions of them to come to this country???

Michael, they are here already, 3.3 million of them last year:


It's still jarring to me to see women walking around town in hijab, maybe because I was taught by nuns.  But they are here, and they are Americans, and they have a right to be here and do what they want.  One of my best customers is a Muslim global businessman, originally from Pakistan.  Not a terrorist.  Employs about a hundred other Americans of all faiths and sexes.  Not a bad guy or a stereotype.

Please try to have a little perspective, ok?

Planko, "successful people just did more work than you did" is the most arrogant, ignorant statement I have ever heard from you. And you make a lot of them. As for the rest of your ridiculous claims all I can suggest is you watch less right wing bullshit and try to find more balanced news sources.

Aw, Daniel, even if Michael's brain does so easily get into tizzies, he's right about America's foreign relations. Like those of any 800 pound gorilla in a room almost filled with much smaller gorillas, America's have not been nuanced. He may be right about our recent wars. None of them having been declared by Congress; they were in violation of the Constitution). Michael is therefore not a dumbshit.

His claim that it's not logically possible that Bush 43 was responsible for 9/11 lacks evidence, but people who have been paying attention to America's Middle Eastern foreign policy since WW2 can easily supply reasonable evidence.

Michael's claims about Hillary and about obsessions with the one percent are opinions and have First Amendment protection.

His Libertarianism? Both major parties long ago abandoned their bases,and this year the parties are feeling their anger. Libertarianism should thrive this year but its members' fanaticism frightens people. It may get a bump in the polls but it will remain where it is.

I agree, Daniel.  And about the 2000 election...Gore won the popular vote, and should have been the President but for the Electoral College and the Supreme Court.  

Can you imagine a reversed scenario wherein Gore had won in a similar manner?   Would the right wing have accepted it with the same peaceful resignation as Liberals did?  

Before anyone decides that Hillary Clinton is somehow a pathological liar or fundamentally dishonest for reasons which I suspect they cannot fully quantify of justify, may I heartily suggest reading a rather interesting Daily Kos article on the topic.

I'm not expecting you to change your mind.  I'm just asking you to read it ... ALL of it.

Thanks, Loren. Excellent article.

Loren, are you still denying the duplicity of Hillary and her husband? 

Joan, I'm not denying anything.  I'm not confirming anything either.  I'm citing an article which I thought was salient to the issue at hand, an article that calls Hillary's alleged duplicity into question.

What you make of it is up to you.

As usual, Loren, you found an insightful article that clearly establishes her strengths and compelling reasons to vote for her. I am now on the trail of the reasons to not vote for her. I will have to do a little digging to articulate them clearly. Primarily, I see her as too eager to use the weapons of war; she votes against the working person and for corporations and the banking and financial institutions. She supported NAFTA and trade agreements that impoverished the poor people of Third World countries and workers at home. However, I want to find the specific legislation to support my claim. 

Hillary Clinton’s strengths 

She will fear neither consensus when possible nor ass-kicking when necessary. 

She will safeguard us from the damage a conservative Supreme Court would inflict on the nation. 

She will stand for the rights of women, LGBT citizens, and minorities. 

She will maintain critical global relationships. 

She will react to dangerous situations with the temperament of a seasoned and experienced professional. 

She will make history by shattering the very highest glass ceiling. 

She will forever change the way a generation of young women views their place in our Republic.

Hillary Clinton’s Flaws 

Christopher Hitchens' Case Against Ever Voting For Hillary Clinton

Campaign finance: she gets money from banks and  financial institutions  

Even supporters agree: Clinton has weaknesses as a candidate. What ...

Support of despots

Weak with Millennial,  

Poor showings with young women, 

Perceived as untrustworthy.

Shown to be unlikable in focus groups.

She has a lackluster style on the stump. 

She is a "conventional candidate in an unconventional election in which voters clearly favor renegades". 

ALL of it?

Loren, that is a very large ask.

Before I read a paragraph of it, I knew that with respect to Hillary and the Democratic establishment, I was sure:

1) She will protect the Demo establishment from the voters,

2) The Demo superdelegates will protect her from the voters,

3) The Demo establishment:would rather lose to the other half of the Establishment Party than to an anti-establishment Bernie Sanders. and

4) I will vote Democratic, ten or more times if I can do so without going to jail.



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