I just began my journey out of Christianity within the last few years, so i would like some help and advise from people who have thought about this for alot longer than I have.

The one christian who annoys me the most is my husband. He is not stupid. He's an engineer at the top of his field and studies things like philosophy, history, science, and mathematics for fun. I can't believe that as intelligent as he is, that he is still so narrow minded and takes every opportunity to remind me how much smarter he is compared to me (and the rest of the world for that matter) because I am just a stay at home mom.

This morning we got into a heated discussion about homosexuality that turned into somewhat of a religious debate. It started out when he was listening to NPR and made a comment that all gays are going to be annihilated in the next few years. (I asked him why in the world he would want to annihilate fellow human beings.) I mumbled something about only fundamentalists wanting to do things like that and he thundered back that the world's greatest mass murderers were either pagan or atheist and that there has never been historical evidence that Christians (or anyone who believes in a god) have ever done anything like that. I was so upset that the only examples I could come up with were the Crusades and the current situation with fundy Muslims. He told me basically to shut up because I was just spouting off leftist bullshit and that if I couldn't talk rationally to him not to talk to him at all.

I was wondering if anyone could help me come up with a logical and rational argument to his claims that the world mass murderers were all atheists. If anyone could give me other websites or books to read so I can study this out myself would be great also. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

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BlueJeanGirl: He is not stupid.

That's debatable. Sounds like a common bully comfortable with his perceived superiority over you. Most folk here would probably tear him a new one if he had the balls to really debate.


Is a good start.

What god-freaks can't comprehend is that personality cults and lunatic religions are psychologically and sociologically indistinguishable to those who are unaware of either the gods or the leaders. Its the same poison.

He told me basically to shut up because I was just spouting off leftist bullshit and that if I couldn't talk rationally to him not to talk to him at all.

Be careful what you do with new found knowledge - he's already having tantrums. Having his nose rubbed in his own doo-doo could escalate to rage.

Take care.
Did he give you evidence to back up his claim? You could immediately try to counter his statement, but unless you get him to back up the statement with facts and reasons, you'd be shooting blind.

As Mr Black said, Hitler was not an atheist and did have close ties to the Catholic church (which seemed to back him up a lot). Other arguments against the "Stalin-type" accusations are that atheism wasn't the reason for their atrocities. They didn't kill in the name of "no god." They set up regimes that, for all intents and purposes, were religions themselves in that people had to bow down to them and have unswerving allegience to them.

However, overall, I don't know that using examples on either side is really that relevant. People do bad things all the time, regardless of their religious affiliations, so pointing out a single (or even multiples) example as proof that atheists or Christians are evil is kind of moot. Unless someone is doing something in the name of God or in the name of "no god," then their motivations may not have anything at all to do with their religious beliefs.

It's a tough conversation to have, regardless, especially when it's with a loved one. If the point gets pushed too hard from either side, it can become alienating and I doubt that's what you're looking for.

I think my first response would be to ask for facts and evidence of his claim and then ask why he thinks it was because they were atheist. Press him to explain his claims in greater detail.

Either way, good luck! That's a tough situation to be in.
Direct him to the Old Testiment. There is genocide in there that would make Hitler blush.

Dan is right about this arguement. Atrocities are committed by madmen. It doesn't really matter if they are religious or not.
It doesn't really matter if they are religious or not.
I disagree, religion tells them that Jesus will forgive them (mass murderers) for their sins, they kill while proclaiming their acceptance of Jesus as their lord and saviour, and all is forgivin, what better excuse to commit murder, mass or otherwise, as long as you believe your still gonna get into heaven by sending your victims to "meet their maker" just as God (they've convinced themselves) wanted in the first place. I think as Atheists we realize that if you take a life, your ending a persons existence, your not "sending them to a better place" and you will be punished, the rest of your life, and we know there's nothing beyond that.
Darling, My son-in-law whom I love so much is a book-smart boy, but, like all fundamentalists, tends to think with his gonads instead of his brain when it comes to such emotionally charged subjects. He may call himself a Lutheran now, but he still a Pentacostal male......in every sense of the word. As always, I will support you in whatever decision you make.
Love, Mom
If you'd like to throw Hitler in his face, gently and with a smile of course, then you could take this quote from Mein Kampf:
"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.."
I think that pretty much sums it up.
I brought Hitler up and he absolutely insisted that Hitler was a Pagan, not a Christian. Anyway, it seems the conversation has died for now. Thanks everyone for your replies. I will be better prepared the next time it comes up (and I know it will.)
This doesn't sound like a heathy environment for you. I understand your frustration, in that I'm not a competent debater, so I avoid having these types of discussions with hostile beleivers. to preserve your marriage, you both need to agree to disagree, and not to provoke each other with spiteful comments. Sounds like you have to deal with his arrogance pretty regularly. Counselling might help, but fat chance he'll agree to it. He's likely to say that it is YOUR problem. You might want to get counselling on your own.
I have to agree here. Your husband sounds mentally abusive. Perhaps a therapist could help. I'm glad you've found an understanding group here.
He does indeed.. I'd also suggest counseling for yourself as well.
My dad was like that and I was so glad when I finally got away from him.
I know this is a little off topic (not to mention a whole other subject) but....Our problems started after our first child was born. I suffered from postpartum depression. He believed that the depression was all my fault because I wanted to be depressed and not because of a severe lack of sleep and hormonal changes. Our problems deepened after the death of our second son in '07 when he was a few days old. We started seeing a counselor for our grief and marriage problems. He came with me for a while and then quit going because he said we were going over the same stuff over and over again. Our counselor told me that there are some people who come into her office and completely shock her by what comes out of their mouths. She said my husband is one of those people.
I don't think you need advice from. Sounds like deep down, you already know what the problems are - you just can't say them to yourself. Yet.




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