I just began my journey out of Christianity within the last few years, so i would like some help and advise from people who have thought about this for alot longer than I have.

The one christian who annoys me the most is my husband. He is not stupid. He's an engineer at the top of his field and studies things like philosophy, history, science, and mathematics for fun. I can't believe that as intelligent as he is, that he is still so narrow minded and takes every opportunity to remind me how much smarter he is compared to me (and the rest of the world for that matter) because I am just a stay at home mom.

This morning we got into a heated discussion about homosexuality that turned into somewhat of a religious debate. It started out when he was listening to NPR and made a comment that all gays are going to be annihilated in the next few years. (I asked him why in the world he would want to annihilate fellow human beings.) I mumbled something about only fundamentalists wanting to do things like that and he thundered back that the world's greatest mass murderers were either pagan or atheist and that there has never been historical evidence that Christians (or anyone who believes in a god) have ever done anything like that. I was so upset that the only examples I could come up with were the Crusades and the current situation with fundy Muslims. He told me basically to shut up because I was just spouting off leftist bullshit and that if I couldn't talk rationally to him not to talk to him at all.

I was wondering if anyone could help me come up with a logical and rational argument to his claims that the world mass murderers were all atheists. If anyone could give me other websites or books to read so I can study this out myself would be great also. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

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It sounds like it may be time to leave the marriage. Sometimes something so tragic happens where it completely destroys the inner workings of the two people involved. Love only goes but so far, it may sound also a bit like you two have intellectually outgrown eachother and these arguments coupled with a traumatic event are just making things worse. Besides "Gott Mit Uns" was the official ensignia of the Nazi party which means "God with Us". What atheist what make this his party's rallying call I ask you? You might want to see my blog post about the "Religious Atrocities" throughout history. Here is the link...

i agree and if I was treated like that,I'd be out oof there so fast,he would not even see a blur.
Listen its my common experience for last thirteen or so years. We(me and my fellow athiests) have reached a point in discussions thousands of times when other person has no answer. But it is of no use. We haven't succeeded to change thier minds. Only thing we succeed is to strain our relationship with people. There is no victory or loss in arguments. There are other ways to change minds. For that u niether have skills nor have the knowledge.
For me things will get worse if the argument goes on. U will damage Ur relationship. So decide yourself what else u can do best.
Hi BlueJeanGirl,

It seems like your husband is the one that will only argue rationally, otherwise he would have to explain why he thought "all gays would be annihilated in the next few years", how he justifies his claim that Hitler was pagan or why your points were "leftist bullshit", and even how that negates an arguement.

It truly does sound like he doesn't respect your opinions at all. I hope you can get him to see how unfair that is of him.

Now, regarding his claim, since he's the one making the assertion that all the world mass murderers were atheists, he should name examples. In fact, he needs to rule out that any "world mass murderer" was not an atheist, and that's a very hard thing to do. He could claim that "many of the world mass murderers" were atheists or pagans, and he would have to name examples to back that up. And then he would have to show that he's accurate in calling these people atheists or pagans.

BTW, this would only show that "some world mass murderers could be called atheists or pagans", not that "atheism or paganism leads people to mass murdering".

Best wishes,
I seem to remember a abrahamic god that flooded the entire earth, killing everyone on earth, including almost all animals and all but a few people. He made Stalin, Hitler, etc. look like a helpless quire boys by comparison and at best all he's ever been depicted as is an angry, jealous, misogynistic maniac dictator with serious sexually repressed issues and massive insecurities. If he wants to talk about mass murderers then no one beats good Old Testament Yahweh. Granted, he's fictional to an atheist but if someone professes to be a believer then they have quite a bit of dirty laundry in their back yard.
That was beautiful.
Mormons still claim to be Christian, so it works either way.
if you wish to entertain his nonsense then simply go to the library and check out books about serial killers with their histories. check out mein kampf, and quote it. hitler truly believed that he was doing the will of the christian god, and hitler also put to death millions of other people besides jews, like atheists, communists, gays and lesbians, gypsies, and public dissenters. to be honest i doubt that he would listen to you since he is so stuck on himself.
i don't know why you allow this childish patronizing attitude to be given to you in the first place. if i were you i'd get a divorce, or at least a job. even if it's only to show your son that it isn't right for a man to treat a woman like this. life is full of plenty of opportunities for happiness so don't be afraid to go and find it.
I don't know if it's safe to argue with him about religion any more.
A/N is a great place to pick up your history of all religions and plot a path for yourself, but one of the first things that you will learn here is that there is no rationalizing with fundies.
I'm in somewhat of a similar situation with my husband who had gone very right wing on me even though he's atheist/agnostic.
P.S. And I'm so sorry for the loss of your son. This will strain any marriage. And PPD is only recently getting the attention it deserves, so I hope that you are getting better; these things can take years to recover from.
Sounds like a great guy.

Almost every religion has a dark side. I haven't started to study religion yet really, but being raised Mormon, I know that even smiley bike-riders are capable of mass-murder (Mountain Meadows Massacre).

Looks like you got a bit like crusades/Hitler but...

Bring up dangerous exorcisms?
Christians tormenting the Pagans?
The KKK?
"I know that even smiley bike-riders are capable of mass-murder (Mountain Meadows Massacre).

Just out of curiosity,did you happen to learn about the massacre while you were still a Mormon? In my experience,few Mormons seem aware.
sadly both sides of the spectrum have committed atrocities, and in the idea of progressing their world views. I would drop the debate of "which worldview is worse" as it won't go anywhere. Instead, debate on which worldview is more truthful.


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