I wanted to put this question out there to see how strongly everyone feels on this subject. Being that most of us trust in scientific fact and reasoning, I was wondering if everyone is absolutely, undeniably, 100% sure that a god doesn't exist.  I personally take into account that there is no proof of any cosmic creator so therefore I am about 99.9999% sure that there is no god. However we all agree that science is an ever evolving field and I don't think that there will ever be any proof to support the existence of a supreme being, but I can't be 100% sure until there is concrete proof against one. I would like to know what all of your thoughts on this.  

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You are pretty sensitive, Marc. I apologize for my insensitive and insulting rhetoric.

And no, I meant that you are trying to use noncontradiction, through your arguments, which by definition of being an argument, depend on noncontradiction, to negate the very same process you are using to attempt to negate it.

When you talk about velocity, by definition, you are talking about 'in respect to'. The cup is absolutely not in motion in relation to the desk and it is in motion in respect to the sun. This is not at all contradictory.

Can you state something that has an essential characteristic that is two contradictory things at the same time in the same way?

Marc, you say, "I would be happy to share with you at least one proposition that is both true and false at the same time.  (The cup on my desk is at rest.)" Unfortunately, that statement is not both true and false at the same time; it is neither true nor false, owing to a lack of sufficient definition. Michael is correct. The definition of "at rest" intrinsically contains the notion of "relative to".

 

So no, no object in the universe is technically "at rest", considered in isolation. At minimum, no object in the universe is at absolute zero, so there's always some movement. Further, objects in our everyday sense are always quite divisible, so to begin with we have a bit of a rhetorical/definitional problem. Regardless, without taking into account a frame of reference, "at rest" doesn't begin to make any sense, so you're jumping the gun by assigning any truth value to the proposition, unless you're pretty sure that everybody is implicitly using the same frame of reference.

 

Michael's question stands: do you have an example of something that contains truly contradictory essential properties? Relative to a local gravity field, an arrangement of rocks and dirt can be a mountain or a valley, but not both. A god can be omnibenevolent or omnipotent, but not both. A numerical value can be 2 or 3, but not both.

 

Further, it's a pretty basic form of disproof to show a logical contradiction. If you are trying to show that logical contradiction need not negate the truth value of a proposition, you're pretty much throwing logic out the window as a truth-finding tool. It doesn't get much more fundamental than that. God, as typically construed, is either logically impossible owing to inherent contradictions, or so ill-defined as to be unworthy of consideration. Usually both. I am 100% certain that such a creature does not exist, because it cannot.

"Further, it's a pretty basic form of disproof to show a logical contradiction. If you are trying to show that logical contradiction need not negate the truth value of a proposition, you're pretty much throwing logic out the window as a truth-finding tool."

-Beautiful!

Yes.  Your response follows exactly in line with what I am objecting to.  Assuming an Axiom of (P or -P) ONLY means one will no doubt conclude ONLY either P or -P.  It is very interesting that you say "Unfortunately, that statement is not both true and false at the same time; it is neither true nor false, owing to a lack of sufficient definition."  because I am addressing that right now in another link.

 

I started a post on this very topic in the Philosophy Forum.  It is called "The Law of Non-Contradiction?"  It might better expose what I'm saying better than restating it here.  So, I do hope you are ok with switching over there because I very much appreciate your responses. 

LOL.  I have been told that I am too sensitive before.  So, thanks for accommodating me in this respects.  It shows me you are, in fact, a reasonable individual - even if we disagree.

 

I have actually started a link on the Philosophy Forum.  It's called "The Law of Non-Contradiction?"  Another member is giving me good feedback.  And it should expose my postion on this better than me restating it here.

"I was wondering if everyone is absolutely, undeniably, 100% sure that a god doesn't exist."
The problem of course is the definition of the term.

I can safely say that i am 100% sure "some" god exists.

And i can safely say that i am 100% sure "some other" god doesn't exist.

 

I can also tell you that i am 100% sure that (currently) any potential existence of god is "irrelevant" for me. In order to change that one would not only have to proove that such a god exists but that his existence is actually relevant (which means his existence should make a measurable difference to his nonexistence).

 

There is no god.

This is a provable fact.

I'm not 100% positive there are no gods, but I have yet to find any evidence they exist.  I am a 6 on the Dawkins scale.
I am 100 % sure there is no god . There is also 0 % proof that there is one .
there is no compelling evidence that god does not exist.
There is massive compelling evidence that gods do not exist. Every single one of them ever described has been amply shown to be completely fictional. Logical induction alone gets us to the position that the very notion of a god is preposterous. We know that novelists create fictional characters all the time. That is evidence that those characters are not real. Gods are no different; they are clearly in the category of products of human imagination. We know that people confabulate them, which is evidence that they are not real. Further, we know that the placebo effect produces the same sort of results that people ascribe to gods, so there is further evidence that gods are imaginary.

“There is massive compelling evidence that gods do not exist.”


This assertion of yours constitutes neither proof nor evidence.

 

“Every single one of them ever described has been amply shown to be completely fictional.”

no they haven’t.

yes they have.

no they haven’t.

yes they have.

Nay saying is not proof.

 

“Logical induction alone gets us to the position that the very notion of a god is preposterous.”

If you know anything about logic, then you understand the logical fallacy of trying to prove a negative.

 

"Logic" simply dictates that there can be no evidence of something’s non existence.

If something has never existed in the first place, how can there be evidence of its non existence?

 

My argument, if you pay attention, is not that gods do exist, it’s that you play a fool’s game when you assert, absolutely, that gods do not exist.

 

Objects of faith (such as gods) are not subject to logic or proof or 100% certainty.

They are subject to faith and faith only.

 

Concerning this matter, it is only your own faith that you can be 100% certain about.

 

Are those people who claim 99.99999% certainty that there is no god, simply incapable of abandoning all faith?

Is that why there are people who claim agnosticism?

I have my suspicions.


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