I wanted to put this question out there to see how strongly everyone feels on this subject. Being that most of us trust in scientific fact and reasoning, I was wondering if everyone is absolutely, undeniably, 100% sure that a god doesn't exist.  I personally take into account that there is no proof of any cosmic creator so therefore I am about 99.9999% sure that there is no god. However we all agree that science is an ever evolving field and I don't think that there will ever be any proof to support the existence of a supreme being, but I can't be 100% sure until there is concrete proof against one. I would like to know what all of your thoughts on this.  

Views: 14882

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

LOL , you are being funny.
99.9% sure. Based on the evidence available that proves gods exists, of course.
99.9% sure. Based on the evidence available that proves gods exists, of course.
There is evidence that attempts to prove God exists?????
Could you share some of this evidence with me please?
OK, have to stop following now.  Cane you should probably coagulate everything and put it in one post so that I am not getting 15 emails in 3 hours from your replies.  Besides that you lost me about 15 or so pages ago and I just can't keep up.  Have to work...

Hey Michael,

You said; "Without identity, an idea cannot be integrated into a knowledge base without contradiction. One can certainly try. But if one is intellectually honest, they will recognize and acknowledge that the idea of god, which can have no concrete identity, cannot exist. Sure I am giving the concept of god an identity of omniscience and magic, but those are not compatible with reality, they are not concrete or real identities."


And I have to agree. But I must point out how I interpret your statements. Identity is concrete when there is evidence of its reality. A definition is concrete only when there is evidence of its reality.


If a thing exists, it has a concrete valid identity. To prove a thing exists, we must have evidence of its identity. But if something, by definition, has only contradictory characteristics for its identity, we do not need evidence of any kind (other than that necessary to build a knowledge base from the axioms of existence, consciousness and identity) to know that it doesn't exist.


A definition is a description of the characteristics of the thing being defined. If the definition is contrary to what it means to exist in our world, it is merely a wrong description. As far as it being not able to exist, is a logical but unimportant distinction. Saying that an idea, definition, identity, description is impossible is just saying it is incorrect. You may believe something is impossible, but you must also admit it is wrong. To believe something is impossible is not the same thing as proving it is impossible. 


You invoke evidence to prove that an identity of say an apple is real and that the apple exists, but you say that evidence is not necessary to prove that an identity is impossible. I say that scientifically (which requires evidence) there is no way to prove that something is non-existent. No matter how much you search for that identity, nothing says that it couldn't be that if you continued the search a little longer, or in a different way, you would have found the evidence.

Because I required evidence of an idea, I have to concede that I cannot prove a negative. You can prove a negative because you do not require evidence to prove that something is impossible. To me that means the idea that is being considered is wrong, not that an identity is impossible. To have an identity that is real and exists, evidence of it is required. Otherwise it is just an idea. So can an idea be impossible? You can believe it, but you can never really prove it.

Also, are ideas, not proven by evidence, knowledge? I put to you that people thought time was the same throughout reality. That a clock here on Earth would run at the same rate as one placed on the moon. That was logically accepted as true until evidence showed that Einstein's ideas that time rates are variable were in fact real descriptions of the universe. With this story, I want to show that something logically true does not mean it is real. To find something as being real, you need evidence. The idea of time being the same throughout reality is impossible (I call it wrong) because we found the right answer (or maybe just a better description of reality for the time being).

What have we found that would negate the idea of god? We have found a great deal of evidence that does not require a god. That does not negate the idea of god. If we discovered that the universe was created due to a process not yet known, that might negate the idea of God, but so far such a discovery has not been made.

My beliefs are as follows: Knowledge requires evidence, but belief does not require evidence. You have proved to me that you agree with my beliefs, but you say that what I call belief, you call knowledge.





Identity is concrete when it is particular in its character and known to be concrete when it is literal in the description of its essential character.

A dog is a 4 legged mammal that barks. Clear. Concrete. Possible. Real (well, real if I see evidence of it).

The soul, god, spirit and kharma do not have the requisite specific worldly concrete essential characteristics to be real or possible or verifiable. And therefore, I know that they cannot exist, because any and all definitions of them are either contradictory or acausal or metaphorical.

Identity is proved to exist, when evidence of it is demonstrated and integrated without contradiction. Things that are out there and not known about can have identity without anyone seeing evidence of it. But things that cannot possibly have evidence, lest the world would make no sense, do not require a scientific search to prove that they do not exist. So, in the same way that I know that 21+10 cannot equal 35, or that a leaf cannot freeze and burn at the same time, or that it cannot be all red or all blue, I know that god cannot and does not exist.

I can know that something is possible without seeing evidence for it. And I can know that something is impossible when its existence would negate the process of reason and logic I use to make and integrate concepts to begin with. For, if magic is possible, well, it's just not. Reality is causal and I need no more proof than this understanding to know that, for sure, the impossible is just that, impossible.

Definitions are simply the phonemes we attach to concepts. They are valid if they include only the essential characteristics of a thing.

If I scientifically verify my location in Chicago, this proves the negative that I am not in Miami. Invoking science for such an obviously simple thing should not be necessary. This demonstrates just how far gone you are, using science to prove something that a 5 year old has knowledge of and you apparently don't.

What kind of scientific experiment do you propose we set up to verify if bachelors are married or not? The identity of a bachelor is a man who is unmarried and the identity of a married person is that they are no longer 'single', which a bachelor must be, if he is to be a bachelor. So, if asked,"Hey Cane, did you know that bachelors aren't married?", you would respond, "No, but I believe it."?

I lost track of what this is all about some time back & it's way beyond the limits of what I know but what the hell.

I'm not sure whether a thing can exist or not matters, what does count is whether it has any use or value to us. An example which comes to mind is the concept of the square root of -1. It doesn't exist, it can't exist, but the concept is necessary to the mathematics behind most of our snazzy gadgets. Imaginary numbers are fundamental to some pretty important physics but they don't exist. 

Whether god can or can't exist doesn't much matter to me either, the concept has no value or use outside of taking money off suckers or controlling them. 

Not a bad point, imo. However, I think, one, that people who actually believe their sky daddy is real are nothing short of delusional, albeit a delusion accepted by billions over centuries sustained as a coping mechanism for ignorance and fear. This antiquated pseudophilosophy now just holds us back, partly by taking money off suckers and controlling them. And two, that rampant skepticism, postmodern relativism and mysticism of the non-religious sort also hold us back, by indirectly sanctioning religiosity and other forms of irrationality. Part of the identity of the square root of negative one is its imaginaryness. It is understood that it is a purely mathematical construct. People don't worship it. People, imo, should know that god is imaginary. We, as a society, will be better off if we individually recognize and encourage the recognition that the purely imaginary cannot really exist. The impossible cannot happen.
I don't think I'm 100% sure, because one always has to allow for the possibility of being wrong ... but I'm as close to certain as it's possible to be that there are no gods

Scientists had a similar argument about black holes, though now many scientists believe in black holes, though there is not one person who wholly understands them. Why then do we believe they exist? We have indirect evidence that they do exist. The gravity that they "exert" on other objects that we see is one sort of evidence. The lack of light prevents us from seeing the black hole directly which fits our current definition of black holes is another sort of evidence.

We have nothing that allows for direct or indirect evidence of god. But as long as we have no evidence, we can always say that the evidence has not yet been found. The definition you use to try to prove there is a god matters, but so far ALL definitions lack evidence.


I agree with your takes on religion and on post-modern relativism and mysticism.

Nevertheless your absolute epistemological denial of "god" is aesthetic. And it is a trap to assert that the proponents of "god" must define her. Once having defined her attributes you claim impossibility. Aesthetically you are correct but how can we possibly be assured when dealing with the unknown.

 It also reminds me of the religious geocentric view when you assert how identity must be integrated with knowledge in a non contradictory way. You assume too much. We are talking about origins and of a universe which is and may remain a mystery for humans. What does it mean to integrate a concept into a base of knowledge which is infinitessimal?

Hi Glen how are things.

I know your response is for Michael, but I hope you don't mind me writing the following. Debating this and reading peoples responses to my thoughts and others thoughts, helps me define and redefine my thoughts.


It is a provable fact that there is no omnipresent and or omnipotent God.


You say.

What does it mean to integrate a concept into a base of knowledge which is infinitesimal?

What concept has Michael integrated into the infinitesimal knowledge base?





© 2016   Atheist Nexus. All rights reserved. Admin: Richard Haynes.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service