I wanted to put this question out there to see how strongly everyone feels on this subject. Being that most of us trust in scientific fact and reasoning, I was wondering if everyone is absolutely, undeniably, 100% sure that a god doesn't exist.  I personally take into account that there is no proof of any cosmic creator so therefore I am about 99.9999% sure that there is no god. However we all agree that science is an ever evolving field and I don't think that there will ever be any proof to support the existence of a supreme being, but I can't be 100% sure until there is concrete proof against one. I would like to know what all of your thoughts on this.  

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You would make a great theist. You believe in a bunch of imaginative bullshit anyway.

Only in your imagination can you know 100% there is no God. You hold an illogical position that you were indoctrinated into by your surroundings. But I guess I can't logic you out of a hole you didn't logic yourself into.

We atheists had a mighty fine description built up for us as reasonable. In the end, people like you who can't live without religion in their life so they make atheism into one might mess this up for us.

If adherence to objective knowledge formation, noncontradiction and causal choice make me a religious person who does not pray, consider any book or person or group of persons an ultimate authority, congregate with others about these ideas and chant, or hold or celebrate any mystical ideas, then OK. I'm fine with being what you cal religious. I don't know how you define religious, but then it doesn't matter how you define anything because anything can mean anything to a skeptic who is skeptical when they should be certain.

There is no absolute certainty. There are only probabilities. If you have dabbled even the slightest in quantum physics you'll agree that it's quite natural, since with the multiverse theory things that are extremely improbable not only become probable, they become inevitable. That said, in our universe, here, now, there has been no evidence what so ever brought forth that would prove the existence of a god or gods, and thus that existence is extremely unlikely - but you cannot at all be absolutely certain. "Only a sith deal in absolutes."

Are you sure? Not at all? Doesn't that make you Sith-like, then? Being sure that one cannot be sure is an absolute statement and is therefore a blatant contradiction, since its claim is that it(self) is not possibly valid. Skepticism, as a fundamental principle, fails at the outset. It is appropriate when faced with an unsupported claim or in the presence of contradictory evidence, but not appropriately applied to well integrated noncontradictory contextual valid knowledge.

I am no physicist, but I am fairly well acquainted with modern particle physics. And as I have explained already many times on this thread, we do not need, nor can we use physics, to establish a proper opinion on god. So many physicists and physics enthusiasts know not when they leave what can be possibly known and begin to violate more basic epistemological laws that their science and process of verification rely upon. No doubt, current quantum theory is very good at predicting certain things probabilistically. But so was Ptolemy's model of the cosmos more predictive relative to the clearly more correct model put forth by Copernicus. Appearing, as random, or able to act at a distance, is very different than actually doing so or being able to explain it. Quantum uncertainty is a demonstration of the current limit of our ability to perceive. Be patient. We'll fully integrate the quantum level logically, both hierarchically, by describing it as a group of smaller things or currently hidden variables and as a part of what we know to be larger things, as well as contextually without logical contradiction into an objective knowledge base.  Or we will not breach this current limit. But we will never prove true randomness or god. We, popular academic theoretical physicists and the media, should be more careful about calling what is at the very limits of our ability to perceive it knowledge, especially when it contradicts, not just other related knowledge, but what makes knowledge possible. There is one reality. Granted, it looks like this is just one local expansion, of many, with these particular physical constants, but no where in existence does anything deserving of the name god exist.


•God is an untestable concept.

•Therefore he doesn't exist. At least that's what I have faith in. Do not question me on my faith you stupid atheist! I will defend it to the death! Logic and reason be damned! 

Nice cartoon. You are silly. I am a gnostic atheist. I have zero faith. And zero religion. For beliefs, convictions and knowledge, I use only reason, the art of noncontradictory integration of objective concepts formed from sense perception and the realization that reality exists and things within it do only what is in their nature to do based on their structure and momentum. This is the only sufficient path to knowledge. That's not religious, faithful or mystical. God can be known to not exist, not because it is untestable, but because contradictions and metaphors and things that lack identity cannot manifest. That it is untestable is simply why the absence of direct physical proof of its non-existence is no reason to think it possible. As if knowing about reason and epistemology wasn't proof enough. Faith is the absence of reason as god is the absence of noncontradictory concrete identity (which a thing needs to exist).

Why couldn't a god have an identity? Why does a god have to interfere with the nature of things? What if a highly evolved race became "gods" or "god" much before our time? Makes sense. Aliens could exist. Why not gods?

Your logic totally makes sense bro. Please contact the scientific community right away and collect your Nobel Prize and your photoshoot for Time magazine.

I'm waiting... 

"noncontradictory concrete identity"

noncontradictory: "The law of logic that it is not the case that (p & not-p). Contradiction is the final logical stopping point: if we can derive a contradiction from a set of premises, then at least one of them is false (see reductio ad absurdum). 

Concrete: "naming a real thing or class of things <the word poem is concretepoetry is abstract>em>concrete evidence>

identity:  "the distinguishing character or personality of an individual"

"Faith is the absence of reason as god is the absence of noncontradictory concrete identity (which a thing needs to exist)."
OK, now what does that mean? 

Using all the sciences and human history I can be 100% sure that all religions and superstitions are made up! I can be 100% sure that there is no known evidence to support the existence of a god or gods. I therefore do not believe in them.
If there is some sort of higher power that created everything, its nothing more than a vague lucky guess on mans part and he or she is most definately NOT worthy of worship.
The problem might be that man simply overthinks things because he is constrained by what he can comprehend, particularly his own mortality. Perhaps matter, existence, time etc have no beginning or end they just simply, are!
PS: If you are an a***ly retentive, politically correct person, please insert he/she where appropriate!
My favorite theory is that time is an anomaly that exists only in our universe.

Technically that could mean that matter in our universe has always existed in a sense. One day time/gravity will collapse and our universe will disappear from existence.


God can have an identity. The same way the invisible pink unicorn or the flying spaghetti monster can. It is just invalid and contradictory or metaphorical. Faith is the absence of reason as god is the absence of noncontradictory concrete identity (which a thing needs to exist). What god that you know of possibly or can imagine has a valid identity that is not made up of contradiction or metaphor, that is not also simply just something else logical that we already have a name for, like 'alien'? To exist, a thing must have an identity in reality. If it does not interface with reality, then it does not exist, in reality. And there is nothing outside of reality. There is nothing outside of everything that exists. To exist, a thing must be some things and not others, lest it would have no meaning or substance to be validly called existent. It is impossible for a leaf to melt and freeze at the same time. Or a plant to grow backwards. Or to be all red or all green at the same time. These cannot happen because they violate the law of identity. If contradictions were able to manifest, our system of how we turn subjective perceptions into objective concepts and how we verify learned concepts by integrating them into a knowledge-base could not work.

No one is disputing the possibility of an powerful species of alien having sufficiently advanced technology as to appear as if it is god-like, but this is very different from actually being a god. Fancy technology, although cool, is not supernatural or contradictory to nature. And if you suddenly are faced with a bright light from above and suddenly find yourself transported to another planet or even local expansion of space-time, rest most assuredly, it cannot be a god, it's only an alien.

The local scientific community does not give out Nobel Peace Prizes. They do that in Stockholm and Oslo. And this is not a scientific issue, but an epistemological one. God violates more basic fundamental epistemological principles that you need for reason and science to work.

TIME magazine, please. Besides, on the subject, they likely only publish phantasmagorical new-age mumbo-jumbo of the eternal skeptic type. So that everyone can hold hands and talk about how tolerant of each others' cultures and mystical ideas they are. I find the reference section more interesting and enlightening.

OK, let me see if I understand what you say.  

"To exist, a thing must have an identity in reality."

Is that true? For example, an atom, or a germ, or bacteria, did not have an identity until humans had the means to see it, even as they saw the effect of them. Is it the reality or the perception of reality that matters. Or, if we can see a reality, let us say lightning, it is a reality, but the energy cannot be used until humans have a perception of lightning as a source of electrical energy and learns how to control and predict its use.

"If it does not interface with reality, then it does not exist, in reality." 

If human beings, with their many senses, do not exist, then does water, soil, air, or fire exist? 

So, if the unseeable to humans, or no humans to see, exist, and god does exist, how can one know? 

or if god does not exist, how can one know? Therefore, it makes sense to know there is no god until and unless evidence presents itself.

Those who believe god exists give anecdotal evidence that cannot stand up to reason, but can and does stand up to emotion. Therefore, does emotion count in this reality?



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