I wanted to put this question out there to see how strongly everyone feels on this subject. Being that most of us trust in scientific fact and reasoning, I was wondering if everyone is absolutely, undeniably, 100% sure that a god doesn't exist.  I personally take into account that there is no proof of any cosmic creator so therefore I am about 99.9999% sure that there is no god. However we all agree that science is an ever evolving field and I don't think that there will ever be any proof to support the existence of a supreme being, but I can't be 100% sure until there is concrete proof against one. I would like to know what all of your thoughts on this.  

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Yeah, I've heard that many times before. Your reasoning is faulty. Regardless of what you may have heard, it does not logically follow from quantum theory that impossible shit can happen. Runaway phantasmagoria. Really exact; that's its domain, the quantum world. If a man could walk through a wall, the concepts of man and wall would be meaningless. Check your premise. If you come to a conclusion like apples may spontaneous appear or disappear every really long time or so, then you've got something wrong. 

This is untrue. given enough time it is possible. It is also true that it would more than likely take more time than any universe would exist for. Obviously it is ridiculous because in all probability the person trying would not only have perished billions or trillions of years prior and so to the resident galaxy in the no longer existing universe. However the point was that one should probably not use 100% when indicating certainty as you will leave yourself open to a needlessly complex argument. cheers.



Needlessly complex for you apparently. It is simple; impossible things cannot happen. You have no reason for your fantasy that quantum effects can change the properties of entities entities, other than and in contradiction to what we already understand about them. Coupling the simultaneity of just a few subatomic particles takes a lot of energy and technology. There is zero chance that all of the molecules in one organism could spontaneously disappear or communicate at the same instant, let alone a complex interaction between a person and a wall. It is a stupid idea. Plain and simple.

Yes, you are correct that at this time, with our understanding, people cannot go trough walls.

There was a time when individuals thought the earth was flat and the center of everything and people were the top of the heap under the  popes and kings  who knew everything and people killed those who disagreed.  

WHAM! Along comes observation, reasoning, theories. 

Perhaps there are other dimensions.  Perhaps we don't have the technology or imagination to not recognize them.  

Perhaps this is all there is.  OK.  That is fine.  I am still full of wonder and excitement about reality as we know it. The sun comes up and goes down every day, the constellations move across the sky on schedule, we still obey the laws of gravity, although there is surely some interesting discussion about it taking place that tickles my imagination.

I wonder if my great grandsons will know differently than I?

BBC Interview with Feynman (Uncertainty)


Joan - sure your grandson will know differently - but would your ancestors life have been improved by going around telling everyone that the earth was in fact round?

I like your thought experiment.  Let me think, my great-grandsons will know some astounding things that I cannot even imagine. 

My ancestors who may have believed the earth was flat would have taken great risks to say it is round if that is what they believed. 

Joan - it's just tough to know exactly what we are right about - on the cutting edge of what we know we have 100's of ideas about possible answers to questions - but there is perhaps only 1 or 2 correct answers - which we really don't know until they are tested - which may take a while.....  the current cutting edge of quantum mechanics and astro physics are interesting, and full of bizarre ideas about multipul universes, string theory, parallel universes and dark matter, dark energy etc.....  some of them may be in the ball park - but still we search to find evidence to support some of these ideas - and even Lawrence Krauss tells us that in a long time from now, current understanding will not be got at, due to the evidence disappearing from view....

You have obviously not studied quantum mechanics, Nor physics in general. You are simply wrong when you say zero chance or making a rounding error.

Wrong, buddy, I have studied it extensively and nowhere do experimental findings or mathematical prediction properly suggest such a bad idea as a human walking through a wall by chance. That is, as long as you are rational. Silly idea. It's phantasmagoria. You cannot use stuff you find with reason and logic to properly discredit the very process you use to discover. And one doesn't need to study physics in depth to realize that some of the conclusions that are taught in universities and the books at Barnes and Noble are fantasy. Walking through walls, come on.

'Walking through a wall' is meant as a metaphor; it's also sensationalised. It's a way of explaining a complex system. It's a linguistic way of illustrating that because atoms are 99% empty there's no reason why objects that are 99% empty shouldn't be able to pass through each other.

In many ways it's a poetic statement rather than a factual one.

We need to be very careful of metaphors. This is what went wrong with mono-theism in the 1st place! If you look at the history of mythology you will find that the metaphors used to explain complex philosophical concepts in other religions accidentally became 'scientific'/factual beliefs in monotheism. Mythologist Joseph Campbell also said that people erroneously began believing the signs and metaphors were real. I think one example he gave was that monotheism did the equivalent of thinking that the picture and description of meal in a menu was the meal itself. Somewhere along the way they forgot that it was just a sign/an indicator of something, but not the thing itself.

It is as simple as this, if you accept the possibility of an entire atom disappearing from one side of the wall and appearing on the other is existent but very low, You must accept that no matter how low the probability of a macro object doing the same whilst very low actually exists.

  I could put this another way, You may right an essay and store it on a hard drive. Whilst mostly the amount of electrons that constitute the charge differential on a logical block will stay held as a digital logic one. there is still a possibility however low that all electrons will appear on the other side and switch the value to zero. If this were to happen in just the right sequence you could have your essay turned into "war and peace" over the course of a day. Agreed this is again so unlikely to happen that you will have seen the passing of several universes, but the possibility exists. Quantum mechanics is the basis of most of our modern electronic components and its only because of the large numbers of atoms involved that we have few problems, however some components utilise quantum effects rather than just taking them into account. the point however is that nothing is 100% certain. even the existence of the universe.

Doubting the existence of the universe. Now, you have gone too far. The universe necessarily exists. It is impossible for a human being to walk through a wall. There is a very very very very large number of combinations of subatomic, atomic, molecular, chemical and biological configurations that have existed, are existing and will exist and an even larger number of possibilities that won't and within all these sets of possibilities a human being walking through a wall is not among them, except in the case of very advanced technology.



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