I wanted to put this question out there to see how strongly everyone feels on this subject. Being that most of us trust in scientific fact and reasoning, I was wondering if everyone is absolutely, undeniably, 100% sure that a god doesn't exist.  I personally take into account that there is no proof of any cosmic creator so therefore I am about 99.9999% sure that there is no god. However we all agree that science is an ever evolving field and I don't think that there will ever be any proof to support the existence of a supreme being, but I can't be 100% sure until there is concrete proof against one. I would like to know what all of your thoughts on this.  

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MCT, And, reason and logic are necessary and not sufficient to understanding nature. There is more to the story of the universe to be recognized.  We have not ended our discovery with reason and logic, there is more to learn.  At 75, I won't be around to bear witness to those coming discoveries, but I surely have enough from the past to keep me interested until the day of my last breath.  

David, Yes, Why?

No there is an extremely low probability in quantum physics that you could walk through a wall.......it is just fantastically low and paradoxically you may not exist in the universe it occurs in. Hows that to wake you up....

I can not tolerate Chopra.........he is a bloody fool.

VeganApe, is Chopra a fool or exploiter? or manipulator?

Yeah, I've heard that many times before. Your reasoning is faulty. Regardless of what you may have heard, it does not logically follow from quantum theory that impossible shit can happen. Runaway phantasmagoria. Really exact; that's its domain, the quantum world. If a man could walk through a wall, the concepts of man and wall would be meaningless. Check your premise. If you come to a conclusion like apples may spontaneous appear or disappear every really long time or so, then you've got something wrong. 

This is untrue. given enough time it is possible. It is also true that it would more than likely take more time than any universe would exist for. Obviously it is ridiculous because in all probability the person trying would not only have perished billions or trillions of years prior and so to the resident galaxy in the no longer existing universe. However the point was that one should probably not use 100% when indicating certainty as you will leave yourself open to a needlessly complex argument. cheers.



Needlessly complex for you apparently. It is simple; impossible things cannot happen. You have no reason for your fantasy that quantum effects can change the properties of entities entities, other than and in contradiction to what we already understand about them. Coupling the simultaneity of just a few subatomic particles takes a lot of energy and technology. There is zero chance that all of the molecules in one organism could spontaneously disappear or communicate at the same instant, let alone a complex interaction between a person and a wall. It is a stupid idea. Plain and simple.

Yes, you are correct that at this time, with our understanding, people cannot go trough walls.

There was a time when individuals thought the earth was flat and the center of everything and people were the top of the heap under the  popes and kings  who knew everything and people killed those who disagreed.  

WHAM! Along comes observation, reasoning, theories. 

Perhaps there are other dimensions.  Perhaps we don't have the technology or imagination to not recognize them.  

Perhaps this is all there is.  OK.  That is fine.  I am still full of wonder and excitement about reality as we know it. The sun comes up and goes down every day, the constellations move across the sky on schedule, we still obey the laws of gravity, although there is surely some interesting discussion about it taking place that tickles my imagination.

I wonder if my great grandsons will know differently than I?

BBC Interview with Feynman (Uncertainty)


Joan - sure your grandson will know differently - but would your ancestors life have been improved by going around telling everyone that the earth was in fact round?

I like your thought experiment.  Let me think, my great-grandsons will know some astounding things that I cannot even imagine. 

My ancestors who may have believed the earth was flat would have taken great risks to say it is round if that is what they believed. 

Joan - it's just tough to know exactly what we are right about - on the cutting edge of what we know we have 100's of ideas about possible answers to questions - but there is perhaps only 1 or 2 correct answers - which we really don't know until they are tested - which may take a while.....  the current cutting edge of quantum mechanics and astro physics are interesting, and full of bizarre ideas about multipul universes, string theory, parallel universes and dark matter, dark energy etc.....  some of them may be in the ball park - but still we search to find evidence to support some of these ideas - and even Lawrence Krauss tells us that in a long time from now, current understanding will not be got at, due to the evidence disappearing from view....


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