I wanted to put this question out there to see how strongly everyone feels on this subject. Being that most of us trust in scientific fact and reasoning, I was wondering if everyone is absolutely, undeniably, 100% sure that a god doesn't exist.  I personally take into account that there is no proof of any cosmic creator so therefore I am about 99.9999% sure that there is no god. However we all agree that science is an ever evolving field and I don't think that there will ever be any proof to support the existence of a supreme being, but I can't be 100% sure until there is concrete proof against one. I would like to know what all of your thoughts on this.  

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You never have to prove a negative statement... e.g.--"The moon is not made of cheese."  Does not have to be proven. 

The positive statement ...e.g.--"The moon is made of green cheese" requires empirical proof before accepted as fact. 

"There are no gods" is a statement that does not have to be proven in order to be factually correct. 

"There is a god" requires proof before it can be epistemologically correct. Which has yet to be given. 

Since there is no proof, there can be no epistemological truth about gods.

""There are no gods" is a statement that does not have to be proven in order to be factually correct."

Actually, it does, you're assuming the burden of proof by framing the negative statement (<-no gods) as a positive claim (there are->).

I have to give this a little practice:

I don't love you.

I don't hate you. 

The earth is not 6,000 years old. 

Dinosaurs and humans did not walk on earth at the same time. 

There is no god. 

There was no Jesus. 

There was no Noah. 

There was no virgin birth. 

Jesus was not god's son. 

OK, I think I've got it now. 

This cannot prove a negative stuff is inaccurate. Knowledge is contextual. If I have knowledge that I am in Chicago, then I can know that I am not in Miami (because of the valid self-evident axioms of existence, consciousness and identity). Similarly, if I know that contradictions cannot exist and something must have an identity that affects the causal chain to exist, then I can know that gods don't exist, for they are either contradictory or metaphorical or unable to define (lack concrete essential characteristics). All things in these categories are impossible and are already proved so, without having to actively demonstrate something's non-existence scientifically, which is impossible. We use reason for that. Science doesn't help negate the existence of what we already define as supernatural. Science only tells us about what is, here in the real world. And we can reasonably prove, with reason and logic, that gods don't exist.

And we can reasonably prove, with reason and logic, that gods don't exist.

I agree, …but the question isn't about, "reasonably prove", …it's asking for "100% positive", which (to me anyway) implies 100% certainty.

I wasn't answering that question, but responding to multiple comments made. But, I do think that atheism is valid contextually and we can be certain. If something has no concrete noncontradictory essential characteristic, then we can be certain that it does not exist. If anything is proved, we can be certain of it.

Just curious, ...what do you think of Ayn Rand?

When I first read her account of epistemology, which I find remarkably consistent with modern cognitive neuroscience and artificial intelligence, I was able to finally shed the remaining mystical indoctrination attempted by mainstream education and media and, well, really the rest of society. Ideas in physics/metaphysics, ethics and politics that I once struggled with became clear. I give her credit for, far more than any other single source, showing me what is true, how to tell, and helping me to refine and focus a contextually comprehensive noncontradictory morality and worldview. This is not to say that I do not think she didn't make mistakes. There are a few things that she wrote that I do not approve of or think are accurate. Personally, some things I really like about her, others I don't.

Ayn Rand helped you develop a noncontradictory morality and worldview?


Hi Richard,

This is my take on it.

It is impossible to prove God's non-existence scientifically. Because science only applies to that which we can perceive through our 5 senses. Therefore until God shows himself, we can not prove he is or isn't God.

But we can still use logic to prove the impossibility of Gods existence. For example, if God does exist then all the laws of physics can no longer be true.(I think it was MCT or Glen Rosenberg that pointed this out to me, on this thread.) 

Therefore, if it is impossible for God to exist, can he exist?


Science is study of nature. Science has developed so much by now that it has become capable of looking at the origin of the universe and evolution of the species. Science has not detected any supernatural power although its sphere of knowledge is now so widened. This itself is a positive proof that god does not exist. A non-existsnt entity can be seen to be nonexistant in this manner.


Knowledge is contextual.

One can know that god does not exist because it is contradictory or metaphorical or unable to be  defined due to lack of concrete, essential characteristics.

God is impossible and is already proved so.

It is impossible to demonstrate that god is non-existent scientifically.

Science doesn't negate the existence of what we already define as supernatural.

Science only tells us about what is, here in the real world.

We can prove with reason and logic, that god does not exist.

Is this what you said?



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