I wanted to put this question out there to see how strongly everyone feels on this subject. Being that most of us trust in scientific fact and reasoning, I was wondering if everyone is absolutely, undeniably, 100% sure that a god doesn't exist.  I personally take into account that there is no proof of any cosmic creator so therefore I am about 99.9999% sure that there is no god. However we all agree that science is an ever evolving field and I don't think that there will ever be any proof to support the existence of a supreme being, but I can't be 100% sure until there is concrete proof against one. I would like to know what all of your thoughts on this.  

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Hi Keith, how are things.

I could actually read this article. Thanks for shortening it.

One question about Step. Are you saying they can or they can't draw the faith card?

Hi again Keith, I looked at my very first post at Atheist-Nexus but I don't think that is the one you are referring to. Could you give me the first few lines of the post you are talking about?
Are all you skeptics 100% sure that you cannot know anything for sure? Or just 99.99999999999%? I'm pretty sure that makes you agnostic. About everything.




I believe agnostic is officially not taking a stand .... an atheist can take a stand based on the overwhelming evidence ...which in this case is even beyond a reasonable doubt ( people are executed on less evidence). The atrheist can say there is no god or supernatural and still allow a statistically insignificant probability for error.


I believe, if you cannot make objective definitions, then you cannot have a meaningful exchange of ideas. You believe agnosticism is officially not taking a stand. I believe this is wrong. Using only the essential qualities that give a concept its identity, I define skepticism as the self-contradictory idea that knowledge can never be certain. And I define agnosticism as the idea that humans cannot know whether or not there is a God. I'm not sure what 'Not taking a stand' means. Not fighting for their worldview? Not thinking hard enough to make a decision? Giving up? Refusing to discuss? Not giving up what one's real thoughts are? Not interfering? It's a metaphor. It can mean anything arbitrary. Thinking something is 51% likely, 75% or 99% is not having knowledge of that thing. There are certain things we can not be sure about, fine, but something that is contradictory to the most basic building blocks of cognition can be said to, for sure, not exist. This is atheism (when concerning God). Not, "I think that there is only a .000000000001% chance God exists". Things that cannot be defined, or don't have identity, or are somehow outside the realm of reality, or can perform impossible things or are metaphors have a zero % chance of existing. For this reason, I think about half of the people on this thread are not atheists.
I have no thoughts about what I would like a word to mean. I define them based on essential characteristics. That is what makes them objective. What arbitrary qualities others interject into their definitions is of less concern to me. You have not demonstrated a contradiction in the idea that to have a meaningful exchange of words, objective definitions must be used. Nor have you demonstrated how my definitions of agnosticism or skepticism are subjective. My perceptions are subjective. And my brain uses the processes of reason and logic to integrate patterns of perceptual stimuli contextually and hierarchically, without contradiction, to build an objective knowledge base of valid concepts. This entire process negates all possibilities of a God. Unless, you define God as a teacup. Then, it does exist and is in my kitchen.
Those are objective definitions. That's what definition is. The objectification of subjective patterns of perceptions into valid concepts. And you copying and pasting my words doesn't demonstrate anything but their presence repeated.
I'm not trying to be a pain here, but in fairness:

To be constructive, if you want to assert a definition that everyone can work with in a conversation, it is best to cite an online dictionary verbatim.

While cute, (and even accurate by some meanings of the word), adding "self-contradictory" to the definition of skepticism is baiting.

Not that baiting can't be entertaining, but if that's your point, own it. Otherwise, if you mean to come to agreeable terms for the point of having a conversation, cite the definition and then add your two cents.
Skepticism as the impossibility of knowledge is itself a contradiction. Unless you mean skepticism as a healthy amount of doubt about something that as yet is not conclusive or not able to be contextually integrated without contradiction. I clarified that, I believe. But these folks are using it as the former, not the latter. In a very contradictory fashion. But, I guess you are right in that it should not be included in an objective definition.
While I have a great deal of respect for those you have quoted, and many of those quotes are contextually valid, most metaphysically, but none of those quotes or anything else I've ever heard, read or seen are convincing evidence that things that are directly opposed to the most basic epistemological (and metaphysical/scientific) rules can exist. Existence, perception, conception and consciousness could not possibly exist if God exists. The whole idea is self-contradictory and therefore cannot exist. There is a limit to our knowledge, true, and exact and perfection are not really good words to describe it, but some absolutes exist and must, for the idea that there are no absolutes is, itself, a contradiction and is therefore false. Reality is an absolute. And dictates that there is no God. For sure.
Whoever espouses the idea or wherever they get it from, skepticism as a foundation of epistemology or metaphysics fails at the outset. Certain knowledge of reality is possible and God is not. Skepticism as doubt of a thing without ample evidence is proper. Skepticism as doubt of already contextually valid knowledge is irrational.

Since you offer them in lieu of answering a direct question, you are not only committing the fallacy, but point it out even as you deny it. Odd.


But, yes, we know that you did not invent skepticism yesterday. Thanks for clearing that up. :)


There are people I could quote as well in an appeal to authority? Really? So why waste all this time thinking for myself?



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