I wanted to put this question out there to see how strongly everyone feels on this subject. Being that most of us trust in scientific fact and reasoning, I was wondering if everyone is absolutely, undeniably, 100% sure that a god doesn't exist.  I personally take into account that there is no proof of any cosmic creator so therefore I am about 99.9999% sure that there is no god. However we all agree that science is an ever evolving field and I don't think that there will ever be any proof to support the existence of a supreme being, but I can't be 100% sure until there is concrete proof against one. I would like to know what all of your thoughts on this.  

Views: 18226

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion


That a thing is what its identity is. If it has no identity, it does not exist. It starts with the basic axioms of existence. One, it, existence, exists. It must, or what the hell are we talking about. Two, consciousness exists, but existence has primacy over, or comes before, consciousness. And third, identity is existence. That a thing is the characteristics that make it up. Its characteristics are directly dependent on its structure, bringing us to the corollary of the law of identity that is causality. A thing does, only what is in its nature to do, based on its structure, position and momentum.


The very first and most basic thought a mind can have is -there is something I am aware of-. This presupposes an existent with identity existing and a consciousness to perceive it. It is a necessary part of cognition, that all other thoughts depend on. We know by perception, it is self-evident that existence exists, consciousness exists and that to exist is to have a particular identity (it must be some things and not others, or we wouldn't perceive it), and that things function based on this identity.


These basic building blocks of cognition must be in order and functioning as such for someone to even begin to think about the scientific method (or have any additional coherent thoughts), which is great, but science is about the details of metaphysics, it cannot have anything to do with epistemology, other than to depend on it. Our brains function as pattern recognition machines (it's really the same complex algorithm that happens everywhere in the cortex) and we quickly learn that patterns of patterns in nature act causally. This is how we master our environment the way we do and how we can have language and knowledge.


It is not science that tells us that 2+2=4. It is self-evident. I can show you one apple and then bring another apple into view, that is proof that there are 2. Perception, in a human, is enough to very quickly learn about causality and universality, the basis for concept formation from perceptions and then when these concepts are integrated with the laws of logic without contradiction, we have knowledge. Conceptualization, a generally uniquely human skill, happens when you retain the essential characteristics of an entity, but omit its arbitrary measurements. That's how we can think of many types of trees and animals, not just the one's in front of our faces and name them, hold for further contemplation and share the idea through sound to someone else. The whole process of concept formation, or that algorithm in our brains, uses noncontradiction and the law of identity in order to form concepts, define them and manipulate them into a philosophical knowledge base and worldview. When one strictly adheres to the objective process of reason and logic in all realms of thought, they become atheist. When they allow contradiction when integrating their concepts, they become mystics of whatever sort.

Philosophy is not only the proper tool against theism, but also against mysticism of any kind. It is self evident that god is impossible. This is why faith is nothing less than a willful denial of reality. Skepticism less so. For, you cannot use reason and logic to show that there is some possibility that the contradictory, which would obliterate any possibility of cognition, can exist.


I’m going to take this one at a time: Identity. In my mind, for something to have identity, you must have evidence of its uniqueness. I cannot accept an identity that has no evidence. God has an identity, in fact many identities.

The most basic thought could be worded as “Do I have evidence that something exists.”

Then you say (in my way of understanding) you must have time flowing in one direction for us to perceive the evidence.

The act of showing me the apples can be considered an experiment that provides evidence of the apples and the amount of apples present and that our perceptions then perceive the evidence. I will also argue that 2+2=4 is not self-evident, but an idea reached after experimentation with numbers. I agree that we gain knowledge through perception of true happenings and identities. Where I think we diverge is how does someone arrive at what is true.

Conceptualization has the word concept as the root. A concept is an idea, and most ideas require evidence to be considered true, but they do not require evidence to BE true, but we would not be aware of them without evidence. I must admit you lost me at conceptualization. I’ll try to plug along.

Let’s take contradiction. If someone allows contradiction in their perception of an identity, then it follows what they perceive is not true.

So, if you follow the rules “religiously” you will lose your religion, because following these rules “religiously” will prevent you from accepting contradictions in your perceptions. And by not accepting contradictions, it becomes self-evident that god does not exist.

I am having trouble with conceptualization and the noncontradiction law.

"I am having trouble with conceptualization and the noncontradiction law."


I'll say.

I appreciate the modicum effort you put forth. I would like to say that my admitting I do not grasp what you are saying may not be my fault and that you need to better express yourself. Just a supposition.
Science and religion have actually been inseparable for a millennia and a half. All educational and research institutions through these long centuries were at their core religious. This entanglement is generally the cause for most of the crap science (what gets called "true-then-false"). Had science not been entangled with religious motivations, our understanding of the natural world today would be much better than it is.  It is only in the very last century that science and religion have been parting ways. But it still has a long long way to go. Religious and political motivations have huge effects on what results get published or not. I look forward to the day (probably not in my living) where that changes.
The power religion has over the poor and uneducated is the reason science has not triumphed yet, but it will. In that I have faith. What is religion? Compare it to Philosophy. Both argue that certain things are true. Both use the same tools to win their arguments. And I for one do not trust the philosophers or the religious. As much as they say they control their emotions, it is not true. They ridicule the ones supposedly less educated than they are. They talk about inflated egos, but they do not admit that their egos are the ones inflated. IMHO, they are floating in deep water. Instead of helping one up to their level, they knock them down to a lower level in order to seem superior.
at least they make a modicum of an effort to think about concepts, unlike at 80% of the activities (pro sports watchers and players) and employment (factories) which occupy our citizenry. I'll take a philosopher and a scientist over a the aforementioned any day.

I agree wholeheartedly. I did not say that philosophers, nor religious people, are stupid, though some might actually be, but I take offense when I am trying to understand something I have learned and am passing on and someone ridicules me. My ego is as big as I contend philosophers have.


Just because I have not studied philosophy, does not mean I cannot understand it.

@Cane Kostovski:  For a millennia and a half or more, philosophy was the only tool against religion. Then science came. I contend that science is a much better tool than philosophy against religion.


Science has on an underlying philosophy, without which it would not exist.  Arguably science is a philosophy.




Sorry George, I'm with Richard Feynman.

What do you mean?





Update Your Membership :




Nexus on Social Media:


© 2018   Atheist Nexus. All rights reserved. Admin: Richard Haynes.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service