Hope and Change my ass, right?
  With the most recent news on Obama's concession to republican demands [its political terrorism if you ask me] I ask you this; Is it time to simply stop hoping?  The Right[wrong] are only emboldened, and I can't stand to listen to the idiocy of their reasoning when perpetrating their agenda.  I'm getting sick of it, and it seems like Obama's losing his balls~ don't get me wrong, I understand he's in a tough spot, but shit, there's got to be a better way to go about this.  Your thoughts?

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I'm just surprised that through all of the commentary I've listened to on this (and its a lot, trust me) that I haven't heard anyone talk about how the tax increase/normalization on the wealthy could be used to reduce the deficit and fund the unemployment benefits~ why is that? why do I have to think of these things on my own?
(btw Louis, saw matt warren on the hitchens thread~ that was some 0-60 hostility, no?)
There's no talk about it reducing the deficit because it won't reduce the deficit. Even in theory the concept of supply side economics doesn't make sense. Virtually all of classical economics talks about the dynamics of supply in response to shifting demand. Even super conservative economists are arguing against more tax cuts in general much more against the ones that will do next to nothing.

(Bah, whatever.)
Well, reduce would be the wrong word. what i meant was that instead of contributing more to the deficit, it would cover the cost of unemployment benefits being extended. or am i wrong about that?
actually, after thinking about it for a second, it wouldn't impact the benefits because the money had already been factored in to the budget, hence it not being a technical "raise" or a "cut" depending on how you look at it~ but then again, It should at least help offset the cost~ who could have counted on that money coming in knowing how repubs are?
More likely the money would be spent on something else -- like increasing tax cuts for the people likely to spend it or infrastructure spending. That would be a much better use than paying down the debt.

Raising deficits and debt is generally bad, but paying down the debt isn't all thats super good. That is, there's good reason to not increase debt but there aren't too many to pay it down (except maybe to show good faith in being able to take on more debt later). It's complicated. I'll explain if you want, but only if you want.

Basically countries and people play by two different rules.
Well we still have like half of the stimulus to spend on infrastructure- I've been hearing things about this being a way for him to get a mini-stimulus bill, but the whole deficit thing is bs. yes, china's economy is intertwined with the US, but its not like they are going to repo our country~ not paying will increase tensions between the two nations, but this whole deficit thing is more psychological than it is monetary; ie its speculative as far as its impact on the US economy.

I love how some conservatives like Sean Hannity are saying they care about people more by NOT continuing unemployment, because they care SO much about people they want to inspire them to get jobs~ yeah, right!
This discussion gives me some hope. Sometimes I feel like I'm way out there, in being an early Obama supporter who feels like the President sold out his base, by being so cautious not to offend the Right, in order to preserve his chance for a 2nd term, that he's destroyed his chance for a 2nd term and accomplished very little in the process.

Here's the link to that NY times article by the way.

Unless he has a genius strategy for winning the next election without the supporters who won him his last one, he's sunk. He won the last one while going against the conventional wisdom, with an army of idealistic, dedicated, tech savvy liberal young people riding high on the concept of change and hope. That phenominal energy overcame the knowledge that he was basically Hillary without her baggage and with the very hopeful message of ending, or greatly reducing, racism in America. Now that base is disillusioned, the economy stinks, the war drags on and on. He lost credibility with some of his gay base before the election ended, when he waffled on Measure 8; then had Rick Warren as his keynote speaker for the inauguration, and could not pull off ending DADT even though many conservatives want to see it end.

His disillusioned supporters wont be so excited next time with a theme of "I don't care about you and I can't accomplish anything but do you really want THEM to be in office?"

Obama better have something up his sleeve. The next election could still result in President Palin.
I fell into the same trap of being content with Obama early on. I kept telling myself that this was all part of some bigger strategy. He's doing this early olive branch to maybe bring them along later on. He's making small concessions now to get big concessions later.

Then he kept making concessions and bigger concessions and then he told us to trust him and his supporters, myself included, told early nay-sayers to quit whining. We said he knew what he was doing and that we just couldn't see the workings. Religious levels of faith in his ability.

Now it's becoming clear that he either doesn't know how to be President or doesn't care about his base.
I suspect both. It's sad.
Forget the trouble he's going to have with the undecideds. He has to get his base to back him again.
Holy shit, you're right! It is like a religious faith that people have had in him for so long, trusting against their own instincts that he had a grand plan or something.
Exactly how I feel. I guess a President has to have a big BS plan that has a visceral effect on the masses (DACs) in order to get something done. Unfortunately, Obama is just too damned honest and responsible.


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