Hello fellow atheists,

I am wondering if anyone out there has any experience with Jehovah's Witnesses and their theological apologetics. I have been involved in four month discussion with an elder and the usual arguments against biblical inerrancy, theodicy of suffering, and failed prophecy don't seem to work against them as there biblical interpretation is radically different then main stream Christianity. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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apologize.. ha..
ok one more time:

I made a few arguments (Not sure how good they are though)

Why did god allow Satan to exist?
It couldn't have been to test us, god is all-knowing so he wouldn't need to test us, he already knows everything including hypothetical situations where we suffer. Also, he isn't proving it to Satan that we'd follow god, because he loves us infinitely and he could just plant the knowledge into Satan's mind, or just destroy him, if he's all-powerful.

Why does god let bad things happen to good people if he's all powerful and loves humans infinitely? He could just...you know...make them survive by coincidence

that's all for now, I hope it helps

JW's are young earth creationists. There was a time that they seemed to only believe Jesus was a prophet sent by the one true god JHVH. Let's Americanize that god now by putting our language vowel sounds in the name. Suddenly we have Jehovah. It's a name that they wear out. God had many names and that was because there was once many gods but JW's continually say "Jehovah God." They have a personal relationship with him because they know his name. In more recent times Jesus the prophet of god became known as the "son of god." Maybe this was a move to reach more people today. There is no holy spirit as a person, but there is god and his son.

JW's have one thing exactly correct. If you die you are dead. You do not have a spirit or soul. You are the spirit and soul. When you die you are dead and knowing nothing until ressurected again. I believe this is one major reason that mainstream chrsitianity hates them. Mainstream believers need a soul that leaves you body at the very moment of death and continues to exist in the same way that they believe a sperm and an egg meet and instantly "it is a child." Mainstream believers need to know that they continue to exist. They need to be so very important and in a "devine plan" of god. In fact, they dictate the plan as they go along in life.

JW's do not see Paul's remarks in Corinthians where it says "we will be cuaght up to meet him in the air" as Jesus coming back to "rapture" and beam away the last day believers to heaven. This is rightly so because god cannot show favor to people of that time in a way that he never showed favor before. Jesus was coming to earth then to set up his "1000 year kingdom." As for heaven, 144,000 went there and no more will go. Death is done away and an earthly kingdom is restored just like in the garden before. (Lions may need new teeth but they will then eat straw as the "curse" is lifted and no more.) Most believe that the 1000 year earthly kingdom is never ending, but that is how long it will take to set us up in a right form of government. Both earthly men as we know today and resurrected men will all make up this kingdom.

I may not have the basics here just perfect, but it gives you some ideas of JW's. They are not "born again" and they simply make a choice to start following god. In a religious discussion with them you might here the word "Jehovah" so many times you want to throw up.

My grandparents and a few others were JW's. There was a split and some of us ended up being Pentecostal. The two belief systems are not exactly alike.

You brought out some things there that I forgot. How could I possibly forget that Jesus is actually the Archangel Michael? This belief gives them support as Elohim says "let us make man in our image." (Who was "us?" God must be talking to Michael.) This also allows Jesus a pre-existence before his earthly life.

It's like saying the part of Brad Pitt will be played by Charlie Daniels.

Since we moved here, we've had JW visits on three separate occasions.  Frankly, I found their posits and arguments simplistic at best.  I suspect that, after the third time, they figured (correctly) that they would not only not make any headway with me, but that whatever arguments they wanted to bring would get countered - not horribly good for the ego.

I don't anticipate any further visits ... though you can never tell.

The JW's in my area seem to have a "no-discussions" policy in regard to atheists which was adopted some time during the mid-1990's. Prior to that, they were willing to come into my home and discuss religion and the Bible with me. Now, when they come to my door, as soon as they discover that I'm an atheist they walk away.

I find it next to impossible to have a meaningful discussion with the few JW's who are still willing to talk to me. They are so incredibly ignorant regarding science and logic that I would have to educate them before they could understand my point of view. Of course, the biggest problem is that they don't WANT to understand my point of view. They come to my door with the preconceived notion that they're right and I'm wrong. It is MY position that is negotiable while THEIRS is not. The big irony is that I've yet to speak to one of these twits who didn't claim that they were open-minded.

Indeed. I keep atheist pamphlets and my atheist business cards by the back door.




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