The following is the precursor that lead to this thread about Libertarianism and Socialism and any other  form of government others wish to add to the discussion. 

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 Are you saying that 10,000 years ago it was irrational to domesticate farm animals and use them for food, shelter, tools and clothing? Now that we can subsist without it, we should, but it obviously is going to take time.

No I agree totally, on both points. But any rational person should accept the latter statement and expect the laggers in transition to be the less rational religious of the world. On those grounds I think all intellectually honest atheists should be vegan. Even if just for the health of themselves, family and the planet. 20% of all greenhouse gases come from animal production, that is more than every car on the planet ......

Can't I just hope for synthetic meat ala Star Trek?

If we conclude that real meat consumption is not ethical and a poor source of nutrition for longterm health, then why replicate it. in a new ethical food system we would just genetical modify a series of bacteria and algae that can coexist in a nutrient solution pumped through UV exposure tubes. The out put of this would be the production of a perfectly engineered superfood in the form of a dehydrated powder. This would be able to be replicated easily anywhere around the globe and turn simple sunlight + trace minerals into a permanent perpetual food source.


You will laugh but when I need my salty bacon like fix, there is a bacon substitute that is great on gluten free wraps with tomato sauce lettuce tomato and cashews. It is quite nutritious and made from a good blend of vegan complete protein sources and a spread spectrum GI with fortification of vitamins. Not bad for junk food...not my mainstay.


In reality there is only what is, not also things that are only imagined or metaphorical. To be real it must actually exist and be able to be reduced to perceptual evidence. The company gets their support from the cash they get from the product they sell and the product is built by the employee's work which is compensated for in the agreed upon wage. All other offenses, support, exploitation, vic or whatever is imagined, arbitrary, emotional and metaphorical. The west will pay that imagined debt back because they are forced to by the mob who are brainwashed by an ethos of sacrifice and need. The future will be horrible, if people just like you don't wake up.

We consumed 90 percent of the worlds potential resources to facilitate the high standard of living of only 5 percent of the population. How can we honestly justify that. You ought to be great full that the chinese are brainwashed, if they were not then they would see how you lived and wan't to replicate it, this would come at a huge price. Oh wait...that is whats happening. That is why your country owes more money than it can even pay the interest on.....that is why the USA is china's bitch and for the next 50 years will continue to be.....unless america decides to further financiayl extend itself off the plank and project its military presence in the asian area in an attempt to extort thier way out of debt...

We have only 10% of our potential resources left? Where did you get that stat?

It's not just military spending that is a waste in this country.

figures are based on rough understanding of current peak oil industry estimates. We are pretty much around peak oil within 10% + or - so from here on in no one will be able to use resources in the same way. at best we have the same amount of oil as has ever been produced left, however because of the ever diminishing rate of extraction it will be very limited in supply averaging around 10 percent of current extraction rates over the next 50 - 100 years..... another words all those people in third world will never get a chance to live like we did 20 or 10 or even 5 years ago. Globally oil will be so scarce that we will all be lucky to afford 1 tenth of the fuel annually each as the average american can afford annually now. Fortuantely as they will drive more economical cars and not SUV's so at least they will still get a few more miles than one tenth...but you get the point....what is fair about that situation.

Just read this visionary article- written in 1997 if you can believe it.

Yeah pretty good article Will. I gotta pick your brain more about these things, you sure know how to do research.




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