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Losing my Confrontation Virginity
So, I'm a pretty new atheist. I've been a doubter for a very, very long time, but, until recently, just didn't deal with that aspect of my life. I just pushed it aside and ignored it. It's just been in the past couple of months that I've confronted the question of what I believe and come to realize that I am, indeed, an atheist. I've come out to a few people - my husband, my sister, a friend from work. But no one else. This discussion isn't really about my coming out to those I know, anyway. I did, sort of, come out very passively on Facebook by proclaiming my religious status as atheist. Point is - I'm new!
The other day, I responded to one of those silly Facebook polls. It asked "Should the phrase 'In God we Trust' be removed from our currency?" I voted Yes, and made a comment about how we live in a secular democracy and the government shouldn't be sponsoring any deities. Two people I don't know and am not friends with then proceeded to privately message me about it. I'm going to reprint one conversation here:
Religious Guy (henceforth RG): We are a representitive republic!!!!!!!!History shows that democracy finds that it can vote itself money and eats itself within 200 yrs!!!!!!!G
Me Fine, a secular republic then. Still built on the principal of freedom of (or from) religion.
PS - type a little slower next time so you make more sense.
Side note - yes, I should have said Republic and not Democracy
RG Jen, You are major cute first......Having "In God We Trust" on our money is not establishing a religion!!!!!G
Side Note 2 - was he trying to get on my good side?
Me It's establishing belief in a supernatural entity. That seems like religion to me, albeit not a specific one.
RG We have a right and need to be a christian nation as that is where we receive our blessings from..... free literature, request The united states and britan in prophecy on ucg.org...........G
Me We no more have a need to be a Christian nation as we do a Hindu nation or a Buddhist nation. You have a right to be a Christian, and I have a right to not believe in any gods. Our government does NOT have the right to establish any kind of belief in any kind of deity. See First Amendment of the Constitution: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
RG I hold that to mean "Catholic", "Protestant" etc. Our writers of the Constitution never had a vision that there would be those who would try to take God out of this government. In fact some are quoted of saying this nation cannot stand without Gods involvment. Things like Hindu, Islam, and Buddism are the mere thoughts of men. They don't even claim to be God. When you live in this nation, you benifit from the blessings of God!!If you say you have a right not to believe in any God, that is your "religion". Don't expect America to change from its inception to your religion of no God!! You are free to exercise your religion of no God, but please keep it to yourself!! Tks G
Me No, I will not keep it to myself. And I wouldn't ask you to keep your religious beliefs to yourself. We are fortunate enough to live in a country that, not only allows for freedom of religion, but also freedom of speech. I do ask that you not try to force your beliefs on anyone else. You need to do more research on Hindu, Islam and Buddhism before saying that they "don't even claim to be God." You also need to do more research on what the writers of our constitution believed about the relationship between god and government. Atheism is not a religion, it is the lack thereof.
End discussion - for now
He hasn't responded to my last message. Anyway, my question is - how do you think I handled that? It was my first "confrontation," I suppose, with a believer since I've become and atheist. I purposely didn't point out that ALL religions are "the mere thoughts of men" since I thought that would just incite him further and, by this point, I was ready to be done with the conversation. I know could have spent more time on his mistreatment of what the other religions believe and what the writers of the Constitution believed... but I didn't. Like I said - I was ready to be done with him and his blessings on this country.
So, just curious what you think about this conversation, what you would have said, how you think I did my first time, and any other comments you wish to make.
PS - I'm really, really grateful that there's a place I can go for feedback like this! Thank you, creators of AN!
The other day, I responded to one of those silly Facebook polls. It asked "Should the phrase 'In God we Trust' be removed from our currency?" I voted Yes, and made a comment about how we live in a secular democracy and the government shouldn't be sponsoring any deities. Two people I don't know and am not friends with then proceeded to privately message me about it. I'm going to reprint one conversation here:
Religious Guy (henceforth RG): We are a representitive republic!!!!!!!!History shows that democracy finds that it can vote itself money and eats itself within 200 yrs!!!!!!!G
Me Fine, a secular republic then. Still built on the principal of freedom of (or from) religion.
PS - type a little slower next time so you make more sense.
Side note - yes, I should have said Republic and not Democracy
RG Jen, You are major cute first......Having "In God We Trust" on our money is not establishing a religion!!!!!G
Side Note 2 - was he trying to get on my good side?
Me It's establishing belief in a supernatural entity. That seems like religion to me, albeit not a specific one.
RG We have a right and need to be a christian nation as that is where we receive our blessings from..... free literature, request The united states and britan in prophecy on ucg.org...........G
Me We no more have a need to be a Christian nation as we do a Hindu nation or a Buddhist nation. You have a right to be a Christian, and I have a right to not believe in any gods. Our government does NOT have the right to establish any kind of belief in any kind of deity. See First Amendment of the Constitution: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
RG I hold that to mean "Catholic", "Protestant" etc. Our writers of the Constitution never had a vision that there would be those who would try to take God out of this government. In fact some are quoted of saying this nation cannot stand without Gods involvment. Things like Hindu, Islam, and Buddism are the mere thoughts of men. They don't even claim to be God. When you live in this nation, you benifit from the blessings of God!!If you say you have a right not to believe in any God, that is your "religion". Don't expect America to change from its inception to your religion of no God!! You are free to exercise your religion of no God, but please keep it to yourself!! Tks G
Me No, I will not keep it to myself. And I wouldn't ask you to keep your religious beliefs to yourself. We are fortunate enough to live in a country that, not only allows for freedom of religion, but also freedom of speech. I do ask that you not try to force your beliefs on anyone else. You need to do more research on Hindu, Islam and Buddhism before saying that they "don't even claim to be God." You also need to do more research on what the writers of our constitution believed about the relationship between god and government. Atheism is not a religion, it is the lack thereof.
End discussion - for now
He hasn't responded to my last message. Anyway, my question is - how do you think I handled that? It was my first "confrontation," I suppose, with a believer since I've become and atheist. I purposely didn't point out that ALL religions are "the mere thoughts of men" since I thought that would just incite him further and, by this point, I was ready to be done with the conversation. I know could have spent more time on his mistreatment of what the other religions believe and what the writers of the Constitution believed... but I didn't. Like I said - I was ready to be done with him and his blessings on this country.
So, just curious what you think about this conversation, what you would have said, how you think I did my first time, and any other comments you wish to make.
PS - I'm really, really grateful that there's a place I can go for feedback like this! Thank you, creators of AN!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jennifer E. on -
What is it with the truly religious and their gratuitous use of punctuation? Seriously, it seems that all of them use 47 question marks or exclamation marks; but, curiously only ever one period. Hmmm...
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Permalink Reply by Dave Rogers on -
"Don't expect America to change from its inception to your religion of no God!!"
"In god we trust" wasn't added until 1957 in the height of the Cold War because of those "god-less commie pinkos". You should throw back at him all the anti-religious things that Jefferson, Franklin, Adams, etc... said way back then. We were not formed as a "Christian Nation". There's a reason they made freedom of/from religion the first sentence of the first Bill of Rights - "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"
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Permalink Reply by Stephen J. Rush on
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Less often quoted than the First Amendment, but actually written earlier, in Article VI:"The Senators ane Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."
So much for that "...founded as a Christian Nation..." crap. Next time you meet a politician who openly advocates Christian theocracy in the United States, ask him how he could take the oath of office in good faith. If he's smart, he will propose to amend the Constitution to eliminate that last clause of Article VI, along with that inconvenient First Amendment. That, at least, would comply with the letter of the Constitution. If he sputters, point out that swearing to support and defend the Constitution while working to circumvent it would amount to perjury if not treason. That last is a little hyperbolic; the definition of treason in Article III, Section 3, is very narrow, and it's not clear that working to subvert the Constitution from within the government amounts to an act of war against the United States.
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Permalink Reply by Jennifer E. on
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Great info! Thanks! :)
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Permalink Reply by Jennifer E. on
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I love it! Britain "suddenly emerged" and America "soon followed." A skewed sense of time to say the least. I can't believe people believe this shit!
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Permalink Reply by unholyroller on -
Is the United Church of God a re-work of the World Wide Church of God? Sounds/reads like the same old bullshit wrapped up in shiny new paper.
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Permalink Reply by Nate on -
Is the United Church of God a re-work of the World Wide Church of God? Sounds/reads like the same old bullshit wrapped up in shiny new paper.
Yes.
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Permalink Reply by Kristi Leitholt on -
Also, let's not forget Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli:
Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. [the US and Tripoli]
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Permalink Reply by Jennifer E. on
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Wow! Thanks so much for sharing this! Very good stuff! I'll have to put that in my arsenal.
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Permalink Reply by Kristi Leitholt on
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No problem! I just found that in a book I was reading. Pretty eye-opening stuff!
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Permalink Reply by Jennifer E. on
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What book, may I ask?
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