... but I'm getting really tired of talking to mothers. 


About a year ago one of my online friends was pregnant, and she was complaining about morning sickness, and then a few months later about her cravings and how the kid had started kicking her in the bladder and GOD wasn't it awful...


... so I had to ask: if it's so awful, why do women always talk about how amazing being pregnant is? 


Immediately she and another woman, who had just moments before been talking about how AWFUL her pregnancy was, said "Oh, but it IS amazing! It's the most wonderful thing ever!"


... o_0?


I listen to you complain about how wretched your pregnancy makes you feel, about what wretched little brats your kids are, and then... the moment I say 'this is why I don't want kids' you flip-flop and tell me it's the best thing in the world, it's so amazing and magical and it's such a miracle! Then they go on to say that it's a pity I don't want kids, I'd be a wonderful mother.


No, I would not. If I wanted a child, perhaps I might be a good mother. But I don't. I have too many ambitious plans for my career. If I had a child, I would have to put things on hold, take time off, spend a lot of money and time taking care of the child... and there would always be a bit of resentment. No matter how much I came to love the child I would always resent it, just a little bit, for all the things I had to give up for it. A child deserves a mother who is happy to give up anything for it. My child would not have that. I would not be a "great mother" just because... what? Because I'm a good teacher, or because I always go out of my way to help my friends? 


Then they tell me that the fact that I "worry" about being a good mother means I would probably be one. I'm not *worried* about it. I'm explaining. I don't think about it. It doesn't keep me up at night. 


The most irritating comes from my grandmother, and other older, "wiser" women, who tell me I'll change my mind when I'm older. I'm 26. Most of my friends either have babies or want them. Maybe there are a few years left before my "biological clock" start ticking, but... 


I have many, many years of school ahead of me. I took a rather circuitous route to where I'm at, and I've got four more years on my current degree at least, I don't know how many more for the PhD I plan to do, and then I'd want to get settled into my career before starting a family (if I wanted one, which I don't)... and that would put me well into my thirties. Sure, women can have children later in life. I was born when my mom was 32. So sure, maybe it would be possible. But I add up the years before I would even consider it, my ambitious plans and the time my career will likely take up, the fact that my boyfriend (who is the most likely candidate for a father) has plans at least as ambitious as mine, the amount of student loan debt we will both have, and the fact that neither of have any desire to have children (see the above comments about resentment) and I think, well, it makes sense for me to say no, I don't plan to have kids.


And then EVERY MOTHER I HAVE EVER TALKED TO ABOUT THIS smiles condescendingly and tells me "Well, you just wait and see." 


I don't judge you for having children. Please don't judge me for saying I don't want them.

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Replies to This Discussion

Have you seen me say that? When you do, you may attack me for it.
Because some people on this group have in his little mind that means we are all guilty of it.  Everything has to black and white with him.  Saves him the trouble of actually thinking.
Also, why *are* you here? I had hoped this might be a group of like-minded people, where I might talk about something that bugs me without having someone leap down my throat for it. I didn't think my post was especially inflammatory. So, why are you here? What is it, exactly, that you want to accomplish?

This is a group, ostensibly, to discuss atheism and childlessness.

I would ask why you and others are trying to turn it into a forum to bash those who have chosen a different lifestyle than yourself?

Bashing was never my intent, nor do I think it was actually present anywhere in my post. I complained, in a place where I assumed no one would be around to take offense, of something that bothers me. This is commonly known as 'venting' and is something many people do, in order to express their annoyance without doing harm. I did not pass judgment or bash anyone. And if I had, what would your comment to me have done? You all but called me a hypocrite and then declared me "rather sick." How does that foster discussion?

I apologize for overreacting.

I've been exchanging posts with persons on this forums who bigotry is truly disgusting, and as a result of that I jumped to conclusions about your intent.

Nevertheless, you should consider the points that I raised.  You cast judgement on your friends and acquaintances for raising the topic of their parenthood in conversation, though both the challenges and rewards of raising children are suitable topics for conversation.  They are merely sharing with you details of their lives, which people do all the time.  I'm sure you share portions of your life with your family, friends, and acquaintances, not all of whom can directly relate to those experiences.  I doubt that they take offense when you do.

And as I pointed out, no where in your post was there any example of parents passing judgement on your character due to your decision not to have children.

Interestingly enough, I have just finished a conversation with one of the women I spoke of in this post about it. I had planned to apologize to her for mentioning her in this rant of mine, and assure her that I truly did not take offense at their conversation (which I didn't--as I said to you before, most everything I spoke of here baffles or amuses me)... but she beat me to the punch. She apologized to me, because it had never occurred to her that I might be annoyed by such things. We had a great conversation about trying to understand one another's point of view. 


As for sharing details of my life... when I find out that something I talk about makes someone else uncomfortable, I stop talking about it. I consider that common courtesy. But I have never (and will never) asked anyone to stop talking about their children, unless they are sharing disgusting details of bodily functions. The conversation I referenced in my post, I *asked a question* about something that genuinely confused me. I posted about it here because their answer, and many things like it that I have encountered among mothers, confuses me. 


Maybe you should try approaching people with respect the first time you talk to them, rather than backing off when called on your behavior. I'm still not convinced you don't just hang around this group looking for reasons to attack people.

I'm still not convinced you don't just hang around this group looking for reasons to attack people.


I have only seen him on tow groups, this one and Feminist Atheist.  All he can do is attack people on either group.  He claims to be an "Equalist" , so whenever women are vocal about equal rights he jumps down their throat because we want special rights.

Although to his credit he did cut that "reactionary conservative" guy (who thinks the Old Testament was a golden age of laws, including "women should be virgins until marriage and the property of men") down to size.
Not that any that moron even warranted any of us wasting our breath or time on that one, so severe his delusion is...
There maybe one or two who do that.  Most people on here don't.  Care to tell me why you have to bash women you don't agree with in every post you have done?




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