Whenever I come out Atheist .. they assume I must have no ethics or morals whatsoever and that I am willing to do just about anything --- like lie, cheat and steal.

Anyone else have this happen to them?

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Ethics and equity and the principles of justice do not change with the calendar.
David Herbert Lawrence

"Morally depraved because I came out atheist."

Bombarded with, what I perceive as insults, when people imply I have no ethics or morals if I am an atheist, or some other obnoxious statement, I have automatic questions I ask them, not to defend me, but to challenge them. Here are just a few examples:

Do you think god made earth for man or man made god?

Did god make color for human eyes or did human eyes evolve to see color?

If god created all things, why are we expected to praise him? 

If Jesus could heal a blind man, why could he not prevent blindness? 

If Jesus could cast out spells, why could he not prevent spells in the fist place? 

Why does one have to pray, when all things are possible with god? 

If god created man, why does man have to admit to being a sinner?

If god made humans sexual, why is sexuality so bad or evil? 

If god created man sexual, why is sex denied priests and nuns? 

If god created sexuality, why does he expect man to repress sensuality? 

If god created man from dust, why did he create man to die? 

If god created man to suffer, why did he create suffering? 

Why does religion misrepresent origins of man and cosmos? 

Why does god expect man to deny or delude himself about the age of the Earth? 


When faced with judgments and predictions of my burning in eternal fire, these questions reflect back to them questions of my own.  

Thank you so much Joan.
Those are great questions I can challenge them with. Very thought provoking.
I appreciate your reply.

If I may sir, I would like to add the following;

God answers each and every prayer, just in his time, not in ours. We may have to wait til we get to heaven, but rest assured, he will answer them all.


As any parent sometimes says no to thier child, so to does our heavenly father have to say no to us. We will find the answers when we stand before him. He is forever loving, and knows what is best for us.

Thank you for letting me put in my pennys worth.

Great! You guys make me laugh ... even as I am mad as hell. 

You are so clever. I bet you can come up with some dandy questions! Go ahead, give it a try.!

I like this idea! It gives me new challenges  and opportunity for clarity. Let me be clear, I am not interested in changing anybody's mind but I am interested in keeping them out of the public domain. When I learn that I am going to burn in hell from smart, intelligent person, I just want to know their answers and challenge them to think about what they believe. 

The 6,000 year old earth would be funny if it didn't have ramifications in all our lives. Creationism in school science classes is another that just wrankles me. 

Oh same here Joan. I get students that are visibly upset when I teach them Evolution and Natural Selection.

Well, we are just going to have to put up with some name calling and resistance. But I remember the old school marm who was trying to teach girls how to protect themselves from unplanned and unwanted pregnancies and she was fired. Just plain STUPID. There is no polite word for what happens when religion gets its nose in the door of education and politics. 

Geez! as I get older I get more determined that reason underlies decisions that impact us all, not dogma. I must sound like an old school marm. 

True Joan we will have to put up with resistance and name calling.
Religion has no place in science education.

It only takes a few minutes to discover Christians history of domination and oppression. If a christian  calls you morally depraved because you are atheist, there is plenty of evidence that religious history is full of moral depravity. For examples:

Orthodox Serbian Christians murdered masses of Muslims in Bosnia



Christians: "Why is homosexuality wrong". This was the first item that came up on Google, but many other follow.



Christian Crusades 1050-1240 

All articles I found were apologetics for Christian occupation of Jerusalem. I hope you have better luck. I don't perceive the Crusades as a noble undertaking. 


Conquest of the Americas, supported by Christian values 



Christianity's Justification of the Slave Trade



Try this:

I have 2 questions for you. The first is: would it be fair to say that you are saying that we need God to be moral, and without God's morality we get murder, theft and the rest of your list

Presumably they'll say "yes" and when they've finished giving you a list of all the things that happen if we don't have morality from God, and perhaps pointed to Paul's list in Romans 1: 18 hit them with the second and final question: 

What's wrong with living in a society full of thieves and murderers? (and please humour me with a serious answer...)

With any luck they'll say something like:

You don't feel secure. You need to look after your possessions, spend money on insurance. Be careful about personal safety. It destroys trust in others.

Then, by getting them onto specifics, start agreeing with them - and pointing out that they are just like you:


In other words, if we want to feel secure, trust others, not worry about insurance or personal safety, we need to live in a basically moral society - one without thieves, murderers and the rest from your initial list. There is absolutely no need to introduce God into the equation. It is entirely possible to deduce a morality without God, and it's not just everyone deciding their own rules. I can agree with you about why thievery is bad, so we can 'work backwards' to the behviours we all need to follow to make it so.

And if they leap to anything in the bible - as moral, get them to explain some of the god-commanded baby killing and female rape in Hosea and Numbers.




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