We are either born with them or we are not.

While the Bible is fiction it is not without some merit. When Jesus was separating the sheep from the goats he said to the sheep, "When I was hungery you feed me. When I was naked you clothed me. When is was sick you comforted me, When I was in prison you visited me. The Sheep said that they did not recall ever doing that. Jesus said that when they did it for strangers they did it for him. 

When he got to the goats he said to them that they did not feed him, cloth him, comfort him or visit him in the slammer. The goats said, the didn't know it was him otherwise they would have kissed his ass. He told them they were all going to hell. 

What I get from this is goodness and morality is inborn. We do things because we want to and not because of a payoff or punishment if we don't. I don't think this is learned. Some people are good and others are scumbags. 

It is interesting that agnostics and atheists are under represented in prison and Muslims and Christians are overly represented. Sikhs, Buddhists, Hare Krishnas and Jews are under also represented in prison.

The most immoral people in the US are in the Bible Belt. The support Trump The AntiChrist Hypocrites!

Views: 160

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

That sheep and goat fable has long since been challenged. Goats feed us, clothe us, comfort us, provide skins for us, provide a means of financial enterprise for us. 

It's not literal. 

I strongly disagree with your about morality. It is a learned behavior that is the consequence of experience, learning, and mimicking. A child born to an unhappy mother in an unhappy family responds by using coping devices. An infant looks into the faces of Mom and Dad and if they smile, show compassion, listen to the communication of the baby, and responds to needs, that child will have a different brain development than a baby looking up to the faces of unhappy, angry, frustrated, sad, afraid, and shamed Mom and Dad, and they don't respond to the communication of the baby, that child will have a different brain development.

If a baby awakens to a Mom and Dad who tend to the needs of a crying baby, feed it when hungry, change it when needed, he or she observes the parents tending to chores, and they take care of the needs of family and community, the child mimics those behaviors. When a child misbehaves, the parents can use the opportunity to teach the child the moral and ethical way of thinking and behaving. 


You wrote about the sheep and goat fable, "What I get from this is goodness and morality is inborn."

"Two developmental processes that result in the formation of two respective components of conscience are proposed:

(1) development of the tendency to experience affective discomfort, guilt, and anxiety associated with wrongdoing; and

(2) development of behavioral control—the ability to inhibit a prohibited action, to suppress an antisocial or destructive impulse, and to perform a more prosocial/desirable behavior.

Individual differences among children and qualities of parental socialization in relation to both processes are considered as they contribute to conscience development.

"Toward a Synthesis of Parental Socialization and Child Temperament...

~ Grazyna Kochanska

Here are some other references about moral development and parenting styles. 

~ Temperament, parenting, and moral development: Specificity of behavior and context.
Mairin E. Augustine, Cynthia A. Stifter. Human Development and Family Studies, Edna Bennett Pierce Prevention Research Center (PRC)

Amy L. Koenig, Dante Cicchetti and Fred A. Rogosch, Moral Development: The Association between Maltreatment and Young Children's Prosocial Behaviors and Moral Transgressions, Social Development, 13, 1, (87-106), (2004).

Grazyna Kochanska, David R. Forman, Nazan Aksan and Stephen B. Dunbar, Pathways to conscience: early mother–child mutually responsive orientation and children's moral emotion, conduct, and cognition, Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry, 46, 1, (19-34), (2004).

Grazyna Kochanska, Nazan Aksan, and Amy L. Koenig, A Longitudinal Study of the Roots of Preschoolers' Conscience: Committed Compliance and Emerging Internalization, Child Development, 66, 6, (1752-1769), (2008).

Larry P. Nucci and Matthew Gingo, The Development of Moral Reasoning, The Wiley‐Blackwell Handbook of Childhood Cognitive Development, (420-445), (2010).

 If we do not "know" where morals come from, to assert that "We are born with them or we are not" is a Black and white fallacy. There may be other factors involved.

  I believe we are born with a degree of altruism as we are indeed an herd animal. This in itself does not equate morality.

  We may learn "right and wrong" due to our social interactions in our human "herd". 

  We also have the ability to reason. 

I think it may be these things in combination with other factors.

  Quick note. The prison thing is really misunderstood as far as population demograghics and religion. please see my post on the subject for a better understanding of why it is misunderstood. http://atheistnexus.org/forum/topics/statistics-show-that-there-are...


© 2019   Atheist Nexus. All rights reserved. Admin: The Nexus Group.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service