I've always enjoyed posing questions to fundie theists that cause them to have to think, a novel experience for many of them.

Not suggesting these are original, or new ... but they rarely fail to get a fun discussion going. Here are my three favs in no particular order:

1. If God created man in his "image," and if by image it means physical likeness, then what does God use his penis for, and on whom?
If by image it means character, since adam and eve were capable of both sin and deception, then God could not be perfectly good since he would share the characteristic of being sinful and deceptive.

2. If God created all living things, then he created bacteria and virus for a purpose. By curing / destroying these creations isn't man destroying that which God created and defying God's will?
And by being innoculated against them, or by using anti-biotics aren't Christians pitting themselves against God's divine plan?
And if you claim God gives man the ability to cure these diseases, how come Jerry Lewis is still raising money to find a cure for Muscular Dystrophy, after 50 years and God doesn't want to give us the answer to the common cold?
And why does God keep creating new diseases to replace the ones he gives us cures for?

3. If God created Earth, and he is omnicient, he must have known that hurricanes, typhoons, earthquakes, et al would killl his innocent and faithful creations. If he knew and still created the earth to allow those things then he is not omnibenevolent, he is malevolent. If he did it by by accident he is not omnicient. If he can't stop them, eliminate them he is not omnipotent. If he can stop it but won't isn't that an indicator he is one evil piece of shit, and no better than Shiva the Destroyer?

My experience is they will excuse themselves and try and find a satisfactory retort from some apologetics site... with terrible results; or they will wing it and invent scripture/doctrine (i.e. "Satan is a creator of bacteria and virus."); or they revert to a completely irrelevant platitude (i.e. "God is good, and this is a wonderful world.")

Try it, see what you get.


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Off by an order of magnitude, Dave.

The Andromeda Galaxy (M31) is about 2.2 million light years away.

This only strengthens your argument but, as an astronomy teacher, I've seen some pretty whack-a-loon explanations/justifications such as "the photons that reach your eye were located so they'd reach your eyes at this time. Because God created the photons at the same time he created the galaxy, he could place them anywhere he wants."

Yeah, I know it's a load of utter crap but you know these fundies....
Thanks Jim. I got my mega-light years messed up. It's amazing how God coordinated all the photons from billions of sources at a 6000 light year radial sphere around us, but can't stop a single senseless act of violence done in his name. It's just so Fundilogical.
Little known Genesis 3:16 "And on the 8th day of Creation, God lookethed around and saw that his divine plan suckethed. He then tossed that plan and said screweth. He then did smite all 2nd-born innocent babies to maketh up his day. Praise the Lord."
The nearest thing to a standard fundiewhackazoid reply to 2 and 3 is that diseases, natural disasters and even death itself are all punishments for the Original Sin. You can then point out that pre-Fall Adam was an amoral psychopath. He didn't acquire a moral sense until he ate the forbidden fruit. Inability to distinguish good from evil is the core of the legal definition of insanity.

As for number 1, ask how God could have had a physical image before He invented the physical universe.
I've always complained about this. Adam and Eve were unaware of the meaning for good and bad, they had no way of knowing that disobeying was a bad thing since they had first to know that very difference by eating from the tree of knowledge, hence, god punished two unaware people for a sin the didn't know were commiting. The religious idea for god is a malevolent one.

In other words, their god sucks
An Atheist is someone who has no belief in a god or gods. It is not specified in which god or gods. Therefore, you could argue that most Theists are also Atheists. Go ahead and ask a Christian if they believe in Zeus. When they say "No", you can say "Congratulations, you are an Atheist." Then watch in amusement as they get their undies in a bunch over that one. :)
My experiences with the germ argument has been exactly the same. Sin is the root of disease.
Greydon Square has some good ones too
What the theists fail to understand is the deity with the highest devoted follower body count wins the bet :-)
What I find astounding is that the “god that created all” with 200 billion stars in our galaxy and an equal number of galaxies he picked our dirt ball to do his stuff...one can only wonder why. Were that not enough he only reveals himself to a bunch of illiterate, nomadic goat herders who are scared shitless of him.
Of course the most puzzling thing is why? Was he lonely and needed some pals? Or pets? Or does he have some personality disorder driving him to constantly need adulation from his lessors. And, what the fuck was he doing for the eternity before he created all the firmament (what ever that is) and the rest of the circus?
If god made guys in his own image,why does he like their foreskins whacked off?
"The Problem of Pain" has been addressed, unsuccessfully, by CS Lewis and other religious thinkers and philosophers. It goes something like this.

Pain is the ultimate bad thing we can experience, yet it was created by a loving, all-powerful (omnipotent), all-knowing (omniscient) god.


The common Judeo-Christian-Islamic reasoning is that god choose to give mankind, alone among the creatures of the Earth, free will and sentience. Free will implies that some humans will do evil and this loving god does not want that to happen, so, like any good parent, he disciplines his children. Disciplining children is widely agreed to be proper and loving behaviour. These children (i.e. you and I) have the ability to learn and change our ways, so that the pain that motivates us can be seen as a worthwhile cost of attaining a state of grace.

But what about the animals? They have no souls, are not able to be "saved" and yet suffer great pain. At any instant innocent animals are being eaten alive by preditors - they live their lives in terror of this but, in the end, are unable to avoid it. They do not benefit from the pain, they do not attain grace. Yet they suffer terribly - for no benefit.

How can this be the act of a benevolent god? If pain is purposely created for no greater good, that act is evil.





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