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I have already told you that an OBE can be taught and the experience itself has nothing to do with the eyes. Now you tell me of blind people having an NDE and they can see. Apparently an NDE has nothing to do with the eyes also. Rather than leave this "beyond science" isn't it possible that it has to do with the brain?

If this is true what have we proven? We have not proven a soul or a god. In fact, if you give examples of those out of the body that heard or read something nowhere close to their bodies, those examples are not always true. Just as often we find they are a figment of the mind. This is because the mind wants to make sense of things and it reverts to what it has been taught previously and uses what it believes.

We find no god, soul, or angels here. I'm wondering what you are wanting. Do you want us to read these things, suddenly believe them all without doubt, and declare that "god is real and god did it?" If anyone thinks this criteria is valid we could all take turns choking ourselves to a near death point and suddenly be with Jesus for a short time.

I've studied this crap over 20 years and I just do not believe it. Big lack of valid evidence.

the thing is that if someone never saw anything, how could their brain construct a vision? They cannot see in dreams, so why would they see in this?

My brain has constructed occasional dream visions of things I would never consciously have considered myself, but then, that's the subconscious for you.  It has very few if any limits on itself.  I give those visions no more credence than I would someone else's near-death experience.

So why are YOU getting so hot about them?

OK, Halil. Let me ask you some solid questions. These people had an NDE and they were blind but they could see while within the NDE. How do we know that? If they were blind and had never seen before how would they know that? The only accurate reporting of this phenomenon would be if the blind person having the experience was once able to see, then went blind later. Without that it simply doesn't hold up.

It's as if you want to say that some non-physical body had the ability to see when it would obviously have no eyes. Would such a body have teeth of some kind and also be able to bite you with these spirit teeth?

I seriously doubt the whole thing. People that believe this stuff will believe anything.

600 years ago, people had no clue as to what caused bubonic plague, the so called "black death", and all kinds of cockamamie ideas (in retrospect) were entertained. At the time, scientific inquiry was in its infancy, to say the least. My point is that our understanding of the brain is still very rudimentary. I am confident that with enough advances, science will be able to answer this question. We have come very far, yet perhaps have much farther to go.


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