Osama bin Laden has been killed in a mansion within a multi-building complex in Pakistan near Islamabad by American Navy Seals.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_bin_laden

 

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/

 

Comprehensive coverage is at:

 

http://news.discovery.com/history/osama-bin-laden-killed-110502.html

Tags: Jubinsky, Laden., Osama, bin

Views: 107

Replies to This Discussion

No argument with that John... but why are we pissing in their pool anyway? Oh yeah, it's because we wanted their oil - the oil under their land - and they didn't want to give it up.

 

America, let's not forget, created Bin Laden in the first place - she trained him to fight another war (for them) against another sovereign state. Bit like training an attack dog and then whining when it bites you on the arse.

 

I'm seeing this from a moderate perspective - in a country where guns are outlawed and we don't assume that everyone prays to a god. Where even the worst criminals have rights.

 

Bin Laden was unarmed - and that means he was not an enemy combatant. Getting shot in the face was probably the best thing to happen to him - in his eyes, he goes to Islamic heaven and becomes a martyr. One of these things we know to be false, the other is a virtual certainty. 

 

The general feeling in the UK and Europe seems to be running the same way. Particularly as we're more likely targets simply because we're physically closer.

 How many combat zones have you been in Draco? How much military time?

  Bin Laden was "already" fighting the Soviets, we supported the Muhjadeen (or however its spelled) of which Bin Laden was a part. Then we left. Against the advice of those who knew that this land needed our help. And i didnt see any Europeans running to help either. Which would have been kind seeing as how many of the problems to this day in the middle east, and damn near ALL the problems in Africa were caused or greatly fueled by European nations. 

 

Precisely how is my employment history relevant to this discussion?

Funny how just about every time America comes to "help" someone, it fucks up and then rewrites history. Would America have entered WWII if Japan hadn't attacked Pearl Harbour?

Trust me, as a nation, America is running out of friends in Europe. Perhaps you should pay a bit more attention to European press than question my motives.

It would be better if we can simply stop short of that point and stop using the stuff completely.  I'm all for increasing our usage of solar power, wind, and hydro-electric, at any cost.
Well, when Western democracies help those theocracies gain power and keep it, it is partly our fault when those governments do something stupid.  That's simply the risk you take when you muck with other people's governments.

  We have been open to a shitstorm any time the enemies of the west have the opportunity. Thanks to the last ten years their oppotunities have been greatly diminished.

  Next point, Im NO fan of W, but to think any president even one with Dick Cheny would be "able" to turn the middle east into glass without suffering a first strike from a nuclear power, is a laughable bit of paranoia. A hang over from the fringe left of the cold war. Equvalent to the rightwings paranoia about the UN,and black helicopters.

  As for bringing it upon ourselves, dude, put down the kool aid. We were guilty of not STAYING in Afghanistan after the defeat of the Soviet forces. We left a midieval, fuedal land to the mercies of radical religious nuts with modern arms. Of this we were guilty. We didnt "CREATE" Bin Laden, we didnt "create" Saddam.

  Having said all that, I do hope that in the future we stop putting "stability" ahead of our principles and our wants when it comes to dealing with dictators and ideologes . But thats a different post.

Morality is what protects the greatest number of good people. It is not always black and white. Sometimes all of the alternatives involve harming some good people. Under these circumstances the most moral is the one that harms the fewest. Having the courage to choose it sometimes involves being attacked politically by people who, in order to promote their own self-serving agendas, attempt to depict it as immoral by presenting it out of context. The way to protect the most good people is to have al-Queda deflated even if it involves water-boarding someone like Osama bin Laden. Remember that bin Laden was living a life of luxury with nine wives while expecting little nobodies to commit suicide for him. I am sorry that you resorted to name calling but I am not surprised.
And to me, morality is not that flexible.  You have to have standards that you don't cross.  Would you assault a child so her parent would tell you were the bomb in some city is? 
 I might. I dont know and i hope no one is ever faced with this situation. As far as assasination goes...this is war. We killed an enemy combatant, a self declared enemy combatant.

We killed an unarmed enemy.  Anyways, assassination of someone hiding out isn't the same as killing a general in the field or killing a soldier shooting at you.

 

My morality would forbid me from hurting the child.  I can't condone the use of someone's life without his/her consent, and a child can't consent.

 The consent point...i always agree with. But the larger question takin on a personnal level I think would become an emotional nightmare. And I dont know what I would do.
These soldiers aren't standing out in the field and acting like normal combatants.  They're hiding away in safe houses, then sending out one fanatic with huge amounts of explosives on him to blow up a hundred civilians.  They changed the rules of engagement, not us.

RSS

Support Atheist Nexus

Supporting Membership

Nexus on Social Media:

© 2015   Atheist Nexus. All rights reserved. Admin: Richard Haynes.

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service